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Healing Specs in S13

discussion heal season 13

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#1 Evolute

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 05:41 AM

So I can't be the only one to bitch about every healing class I play, so let's make a giant thread about different healers in S13! Now, I'm just going to throw out thoughts, so please don't get pissy about anything I say.

AJ needs more discussion and less circlejerk anyway

:shaman: :shaman: :shaman:

I feel shaman are either stupid weak or stupid overpowered. I'm not sure where to place them. Their cooldowns are actually pretty dumb; however, the change so you can't cast totems while silenced makes the class feel extremely awkward. I can't count the number of times when I see massive burst coming, want to link before shit hits the fan, only to be hit by a silence shot and put into a 40 year crowd control chain. When I'm hit by a garrote or shadow priest silence, I am absolutely terrified of what they're going to do, because I have nothing I can to do preemptively.

That brings me to why I think shamans might be really weak; because even though you can obviously see a switch and it can be the most obvious thing in the world, you can't do anything. Your options are to Earth Shield yourself, riptide, and pray you don't die in a kidneyshot and that you get proper peels. It's not fun at all to read your opponent and then have nothing you can do. With the resurgence of DK and Rogue teams, I'm actually scared to play my shaman.

In the world of nethertempest unholy deathknight shadowpriests I do feel shaman do very well with riptide and how overpowered healing stream is.

:druid: :druid: :druid:

I think druids are pretty great right now. They don't really have any downsides. They bring some good crowd control, nice cooldowns (ironbark was sorely needed last expansion) and have good escape tools. I think the 'nerf' to displacer was needed, but the idea to give them a speed increase was welcome. I think a lot of druids are overvaluing bash instead of disorient or vortex, as both are insane abilities. Bash and Disorient both set up really easy cyclones, but I think vortex should be played around a bit if playing against a warrior for example.

The healing buff was really welcome, and I think it allows them to finally start keeping up with the damage potential of some classes. Though, I do think 3 stack lifebloom is still awko taco because you always want 3 stacks regardless and the heal is so small on 1 and 2 stacks that it's not really worth it.

Druids are also still not doing exceptionally hot in PvE though they're definitely better than before, so there may be even more healing druid buffs in the future.

Their spread healing is also pretty darn good with rejuv and wg, and easy lifebloom swaps.

:priest: :priest: :priest:

I think they're the best healers currently. They bring so much offensive and defensive utility to the table, the tools they've gotten have allowed them to survive against cleave teams which previously were their bane. I still think Psyfiend is actually the dumbest thing, because it's made the priest playstyle a lot more defensive as a whole.. before there were fear battles and mind games off that, but now a popular playstyle for discipline is to hang by a pillar and to let your psyfiend get all the fears without risking yourself in the process.

The fade nerf was really needed, it was a dumb idea overall. I'm not a fan of the crit shield mechanic, as it makes it really rng if the person you're killing has a shield you can kill, or one that takes a team effort to actually get rid of.

PoM makes spread healing pretty easy.

:paladin: :paladin: :paladin:

I think they've lost their status as godhealer. I can't be the only one who sometimes can't keep up my team because the AoE pressure is too much. It gets to a point where my shock is on cooldown, I only have 1 or 2 Holy power, and I'm left wondering what the hell to do because if I cast I'll be locked out and further behind and if I cast a 2 pt wog and it doesn't proc divine purpose I'm pretty fucked.

I think they still have their place in certain rushdown comps like PHD or Thug, as well as in comps that can put out broken pressure on their own like Shadow/DK or MLP, but I am definitely not a fan of my paladin this patch. Now that KFC, a comp that could literally just kill anyone with the paladin never having to cast was nerfed, I think we'll slowly see the decline of holy representation as a whole.

Their CC was dumb as hell and needed to be nerfed. I didn't like having more CC potential than a druid.

Posted Image [AJ doesn't have a monk emoticon : (]

I think monks are hidden op and people will start to pick up on it. While they're heavily susceptible to crowd control chains they bring an extreme amount of tools to any team while providing great burst heals, mana efficient heals, and good cooldowns.

With the subtle buffs to chi wave and other changes I really do hope we start to see more monks in arena..  they're pretty fun to play against and play as and nobody actually knows what they do yet which is a shame. They designed a really fun class and yet, even after 6 months, people have no fucking idea what they bring to a team and are not usually the first healer you think of.

Also, ring of peace.

Anyway, feel free to chime in on in on anything you really disagree with, agree with, things you would like changed, things that seem really overpowered, etc

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#2 Korzul

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:24 AM

Shamans are still the strongest IF there's a shadow priest on the team, all their weaknesses get covered + you have tremor.
Shaman + Shadow + dk/rogue/mage/feral are all top tier comps.
Sadly without a shadow priest shamans are relatively easy kills.

Druids again are great if there's a shadow around. Less trainable, more cc and more susceptible to cc. They're by far the best RBG healer and cope with spread pressure the easiest. Also their mana retention is just crazy right now.

Discs are the best "stand alone" healer. Obv don't synergise at all with a shadow priest yet are the healer of choice now for practically every non shadow priest or mage+lock comp.

Paladins aren't bad, again they require a shadow for a great ladder comp. It's just that the weakness of melee cleave currently reduces their niche in both keeping said cleaves active as well as being very durable against them.

Monks have an amazing toolset, sadly they're normally sat in so much cc they don't get to use it. Once life cocoons been popped they seem too easy to shut down and cc whilst you drop their partners. They really need some minor tool for cc protection to be properly viable.

#3 Evolute

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:33 AM

It's interesting, and definitely the case, that having a shadow supplies so much to healers that it's almost like playing another class. But how do you solve that?

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#4 Pawzz

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

Good thread

#5 Covlol

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 06:34 AM

View PostEvolute, on 16 March 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

It's interesting, and definitely the case, that having a shadow supplies so much to healers that it's almost like playing another class. But how do you solve that?

nerf shadow?
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Lvl 1 Dk Legend Covlol

#6 Regent

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:16 AM

Ive been messing around playing all the healers on the ptr and some on live.

I think that Shamans are still the best, if only due to the popularity of spriests. High heals and mobility coupled with many ways to block enemy CC make them a good fit in almost any comp.

Resto druids are strong again, but are still susceptible to gibs and not being able to keep up with high burst. They really shine with all the spread damage teams popping up.

Disc is in a much better place than before, and in some situations probably too strong. They can still get hammered by DKs, which are becoming more popular, but seem to do good against rogues and certain casters. I feel they can easily fall behind in healing, and offensive dispels from the opposing team can really hurt (always been like this though).

I havn't played much Monk but think that they have insane potential. Ring of Peace is insane. Their healing bubble not being dispellable is insane. They have strong mobility and good cc, but have problems picking people up fast. The problem is no one wants to try it out since they werent obviously overpowered at the start. Thinking back to when DKs came out, if they werent super OP, why would you ever want to bring one since you have to relearn strats, etc.

Paladins are probably somewhere around the bottom (trying not to be biased), with the amount of physical cleaves falling off a lot and the resurgence of wizards and rogues they don't have much use. Pallies have always been the "3 minute healer", with games lasting longer than that becoming losses due to the lack of cc prevention and hots. I feel like the paladin style of healing is pretty poorly designed and allows them to only be good when certain classes are faceroll. This isn't to say they suck or are bad, but you would be hardpressed to take a pally over any other healer. If spriest wasnt so popular, I think pallies would be more better.

Overall, they are all pretty equal but if I had to rank them:

Rsham > Druid > Priest > Pally/Monk

Edited by Regent, 17 March 2013 - 08:25 AM.


#7 Moreudirl

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:23 AM

shaman>paladin=Druid>monk>priest

(outside of rmp and disc thug ofc)

overall they are all playable at high ratings, thumbs up... now to fix dps disparities....

Edited by Moreudirl, 17 March 2013 - 08:23 AM.


#8 Amarithor18

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:14 AM

pls... 30s tremor

#9

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:28 AM

On the first day of the season I thought the four big healers were pretty equal, but the more I play the more my opinion on this season has changed. in 100 or so games at 2100-2400 Ive only seen a handful of paladins, priests and Shaman are far and away the most common, and they seem to be the top two healers. Druids I'm not really sure, they only work in a few comps, mld/god/rpd, they seem really strong in those comps but terrible in basically everything else. I agree with you on monks, I dont think many/if anyone can play them to their full potential yet. Nothing really changed for paladins but Wizards and disc priest pally killing shit are all you see now, rmp's can literally kill me before the first cheapshot ends, and that makes paladins feel really crappy, I'm also being trained by just regular melee cleaves more then i ever have before and I blame that entirely on vanguards because everyone sees him do it. With warriors/ferals both being significantly weaker I think how good/bad paladins are this season is going to be directly tied to Deathknights, those three classes and hunters and what we've for the most part always needed to do well, PHDK might be the saving grace of paladins this season.

I don't even feel like cc is what's making paladins feel shitty, without blood fear/pom ring, its not hard to avoid cc. I just cannot fucking heal through shadowcleaves, fire mlx's, and every rmp/thug/anything with a mage can kill me in a few globals.

This season also feels like playing with a shadopriest, or atleast some kind of other hybrid, or a heavy control comp like mld is even more mandatory then last season. EVERYONE has ridiculous swifty one shots still, damage has gone up and mitigation has gone down so it's impossible to survive without a spriest or Demonic Gateway now. And speaking of MLD's, I fucking love no cooldown on poly/fear with an 8 sec cd on dispel. And what the fuck are warlocks complaining about their damage for, every one who heals sees how retarded every warlock opener is. Demon soul->3 gcds later full dots on the entire team and their mage partner throwing out 100k pyros

I'm also having a lot more mana problems than I had last season, any deathknight team puts out insane pressure forever and you have to spam heal the entire game until you're oom. Shadowcleave especially because of the spread pressure, but its okay, my eternal flame ticks for 6k.

View PostEvolute, on 16 March 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

That brings me to why I think shamans might be really weak; because even though you can obviously see a switch and it can be the most obvious thing in the world, you can't do anything. Your options are to Earth Shield yourself, riptide, and pray you don't die in a kidneyshot and that you get proper peels. It's not fun at all to read your opponent and then have nothing you can do. With the resurgence of DK and Rogue teams, I'm actually scared to play my shaman.


This actually makes me laugh, right now with 68% resiliance, I can see a wizard swap coming, pop my 40% wall at 100% health, before the deep lands, and still die in it.

Edited by Radejjj, 17 March 2013 - 09:43 AM.


#10 Gekz

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:06 AM

Based on what i've experienced from playing this season so far I'd say Shaman > Druid = Priest > Paladin > Monk.

#11 StigmaticAscetic

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

Have to disagree with most of the things you say about monks. Chi wave actually got nerffed for MW mostly and our burst heals are very mana inefficient. Ring of peace is a great tool to keep your SP alive against melee cleaves though.

#12 Amiza

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

Shamans still seem very strong in my opinion

#13 Dividium

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

View PostEvolute, on 16 March 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

That brings me to why I think shamans might be really weak

And I lost interest beyond this point. Most represented healer class in top ladders, perfectly r1 viable and you call them really weak? ok.

#14 Evolute

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:13 PM

View PostDividium, on 17 March 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

And I lost interest beyond this point. Most represented healer class in top ladders, perfectly r1 viable and you call them really weak? ok.

I literally wrote down a weakness the moment after that. If they had 0 weaknesses, they would be 100% representation as every person would play them. I also called them overpowered in the paragraph before xd

Please fuck off if you have nothing to comment. I don't care if you lost interest. Don't post then.

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#15 Dividium

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

View PostEvolute, on 17 March 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

I literally wrote down a weakness the moment after that. If they had 0 weaknesses, they would be 100% representation as every person would play them. I also called them overpowered in the paragraph before xd

Please fuck off if you have nothing to comment. I don't care if you lost interest. Don't post then.

Actually I do have something to comment. You should paraphrase your post seeing as you're calling them "really weak" in your original post and you "wrote down a weakness" in your reply. Which is it?

#16 Evolute

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

View PostDividium, on 17 March 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Actually I do have something to comment. You should paraphrase your post seeing as you're calling them "really weak" in your original post and you "wrote down a weakness" in your reply. Which is it?

They are really weak to switches when they do not have a shadowpriest after the totem silence change.

They didn't need preemptive cooldowns before because they had SLT and junk to pop if they got silenced or whatever. Now they lost that, so on a hard switch having a life swap can literally mean life and death and allow the shaman to use his overpowered cooldowns to react to the burst.

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#17 Mirionx

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:52 PM

View PostEvolute, on 17 March 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

They are really weak to switches when they do not have a shadowpriest after the totem silence change.

happy?

but that goes for every healer

#18 Evolute

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:55 PM

View PostMirionx, on 17 March 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

but that goes for every healer

I never said otherwise; but other healers DO have things they can pop during a stun/silence or before a stun/silence. Even paladins can preemptively wall burst.

You need to look past the fact that damage as a whole is overpowered and look at the mechanics of the classes. I don't think it's a good design to have a class with NO defenses when they're stuck in a stun/silence and have OVERPOWERED defenses when they're not in one.

Basically, it shouldn't be 'kill the shaman in the stun or he's getting to 100% in 1 second'.

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#19 Mirionx

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:06 PM

View PostEvolute, on 17 March 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I never said otherwise; but other healers DO have things they can pop during a stun/silence or before a stun/silence. Even paladins can preemptively wall burst.

You need to look past the fact that damage as a whole is overpowered and look at the mechanics of the classes. I don't think it's a good design to have a class with NO defenses when they're stuck in a stun/silence and have OVERPOWERED defenses when they're not in one.

Basically, it shouldn't be 'kill the shaman in the stun or he's getting to 100% in 1 second'.

If you say paladins can pre-emptively use wall in that case so can shamans, they can use ES, Riptide & even bigger cds like healing tide and tremor to get help.

Idk why you're being biased in a post like this, it just makes you look bad..

#20 Evolute

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:08 PM

View PostMirionx, on 17 March 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

If you say paladins can pre-emptively use wall in that case so can shamans, they can use ES, Riptide & even bigger cds like healing tide and tremor to get help.

Idk why you're being biased in a post like this, it just makes you look bad..

I play a shaman a paladin and a druid

but if youre actually comparing a 40% / 20%,20% wall to a es and riptide I don't know what to tell you \o/

not really going to reply to any more post bashing, I already said

Quote

I'm just going to throw out thoughts

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