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wtf is this gear disparity


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#101 Seu

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:27 AM

View PostNadagast, on 17 March 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

@ #2: the game is popular because of single player, watching pros, and custom games, not because everyone plays ladder.

Again, I'm not saying I like the fact that the honor gear is so low ilvl, I'm only arguing against the idea that there should be no gear at all in arenas.


world of warcraft arena is so wildly unpopular right now that removing gear from it couldn't possibly make it any less popular, maybe playing on bloodlust makes it difficult to see but just look at the glad calculator for any other bg and its pretty apparent that arena is on life support.


i dont see why introducing arena as a place where people can get conquest points by playing fully geared characters in a competitive environment wouldnt (greatly) increase its popularity. right now you get less conquest points from arena than rbgs and there really is no incentive for new players other than less time to find a group and shorter games - being able to play a fully geared character would be that incentive (and of course the cosmetic rewards from achieving certain ratings).

i guess the bottom line is that you might be looking at the majority of the remaining playerbase who cares about gear progression when playing arena, and im looking toward the much (much) larger playerbase that doesn't even touch arena who might give it a try under different circumstances.

Edited by Seu, 18 March 2013 - 05:27 AM.


#102 Skizzlol

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

I'm doing pretty well with full honor gear.


The rest of you just suck.

Edited by Skizzlol, 18 March 2013 - 05:23 PM.


#103 Nightmonkey

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostSeu, on 18 March 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

world of warcraft arena is so wildly unpopular right now that removing gear from it couldn't possibly make it any less popular, maybe playing on bloodlust makes it difficult to see but just look at the glad calculator for any other bg and its pretty apparent that arena is on life support.


i dont see why introducing arena as a place where people can get conquest points by playing fully geared characters in a competitive environment wouldnt (greatly) increase its popularity. right now you get less conquest points from arena than rbgs and there really is no incentive for new players other than less time to find a group and shorter games - being able to play a fully geared character would be that incentive (and of course the cosmetic rewards from achieving certain ratings).

i guess the bottom line is that you might be looking at the majority of the remaining playerbase who cares about gear progression when playing arena, and im looking toward the much (much) larger playerbase that doesn't even touch arena who might give it a try under different circumstances.

I think the current system we have is bad, but I would be even less likely to play if there wasn't any effort at all required to gear up.  As I said before, the arena gameplay by itself isn't really that compelling.  That's probably why the scene is so small.  It's a very unforgiving game mode that takes just as long if not longer to gear up for than PvE, and once you do gear up if you aren't playing with friends then you will likely play with some turds before you find people cool to play with.

#104 phishy

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:57 PM

It's not so much the fact that there is a new system that is causing a huge gear/ilvl disparity now that wasnt there before. The game is just designed to rely more heavily on gear now, but it's pretty much been this way since cata and was greatly enhanced with mop. i'll resub when pvp goes back to being more reliant on player skill and consistent play, rather than gear and cooldown stacking

#105 Zaephyr

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:37 PM

View PostSkizzlol, on 18 March 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

I'm doing pretty well with full honor gear.


The rest of you just suck.

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wonder why
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#106 Ayume

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

View PostNadagast, on 17 March 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

I'm not saying that I like the gear disparity, (I wish Honor gear was 483-487 maybe) but I don't agree with many of the comments in this thread saying there should be no gear differences at all in PvP.

Sure, for players like us, the top ~1% most dedicated and hardcore arena players, we don't need gear to motivate us, we're motivated mostly just by competition.  However, for the other 99% of the playerbase, gear, titles, and other random goofy rewards are extremely powerful motivators to participate.  Taking away all gear differences/upgrades would leave the arena playerbase very small.

I think in general people on AJ (and really in any online community that caters to a specific niche) are capable of making pretty good suggestions IF every player playing the game was a member of their niche (hardcore PvP).  It's like lots of us fail to realize other segments of the community exist, and Blizzard has to make a game for all segments.

The game is at a point of divergence, as soon as they decided to add pvp power and change how abilities work in arena they opened the doors to completely seperating the pvp in this game from the pve. I for one don't even consider them remotely related, and I don't think anyone else should either. They don't allow pve gear in arena, they itemize pvp gear to be bad in pve, they design abilities different for pvp than for pve, so why is it again we should also share gear progession?

You say that 99% of the playerbase plays for gear and titles, but I didn't say they should remove all rewards, I merely said they should remove gear progression. There should still be visual upgrades at 2000 and 2400, along with more titles and sweet achievements. There can still be fun random goofy arena rewards without people feeling like they wasted their time in arena because their character didn't improve via stats. The whole purpose of the achievement system was to fulfull this.

Maybe I'm skeptical, but I really don't feel like this other segment exists anymore. The barrier to entry to pvp now is SO high that even veterans have a hard time competing with honor gear, there isn't the same casual pvp/pver that used to exist back in BC and Wotlk. The game isn't the same as back then when we had a huge portion of people playing pvp, in fact, their changes to pvp(adding upgrades, and an entire 2nd tier of gear) has only made pvp LESS accessable to the masses.

tldr; this game isn't like it used to be where people played both pve and pvp and we had a ton of casuals. Only the hardcore really play arena or rbgs now.

Edited by Ayume, 18 March 2013 - 08:25 PM.

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#107 Skizzlol

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

View PostZaephyr, on 18 March 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

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wonder why

If you cant beat em' join em'. U mirin?

#108 Salutations

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:58 AM

you mirin brah

#109 Shrouds

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:33 AM

Gear was a great incentive from pre-bc to wotlk but I'm pretty sure in cataclysm and mop gear isn't as "fun (for PvE and PvP.)
Most people have some joy when receiving a new piece of gear but ever since the "cataclysm" system it's not as fun.
The BC and WOTLK systems were good because:
1. Gear could last you at least 3 seasons
2. You could compete even if you had the gear from two seasons ago

They made it more difficult to obtain the gear, but had it have MUCH less of a difference

So if you getting the gear is a status symbol and a VERY slight advantage

A HUGE HUGE HUGE factor was the fact only WEAPONS and 5/5 ARMOR were from arena, everything else was equal (also 3's and 5's gave more points but idk if that's the answer)

However, with transmorg there's basically no point anymore. So they need to add more LONGER lasting things to entertain people instead of creating a crappy set of gear no one cares about since they can transmorg

#110 Smooviex

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:29 PM

I don't understand why they make weapons to be the almighty piece of gear that you drool all over your pillow at night to get... it's like you can be in full honor gear (pre buff) and still be fine with t2 2/2 weps. would there be any harm in spreading out the stats to gear? saving up all your points for weps and only being able to buy like 1 piece of gear right now is mad boring... if anything recently has changed this lemme know so I can actually buy gear instead of sitting on 25k conquest points waiting on weps.

#111 kazuhmeer

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:43 PM

rbg lords with t2 2/2 from last season stuck in the 1600's ruins it for newer players in honor gear as well, people who actually drool on the keyboard but have a 20 ilevel advantage, cool game

#112 Salutations

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:59 PM



#113 Drake

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:33 PM

View PostSmooviex, on 20 March 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

I don't understand why they make weapons to be the almighty piece of gear that you drool all over your pillow at night to get... it's like you can be in full honor gear (pre buff) and still be fine with t2 2/2 weps. would there be any harm in spreading out the stats to gear? saving up all your points for weps and only being able to buy like 1 piece of gear right now is mad boring... if anything recently has changed this lemme know so I can actually buy gear instead of sitting on 25k conquest points waiting on weps.
Might be the fact that everybody would use HC PvE weapons in that case.

#114 Vadren

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:44 PM

I agree with Nadagastt, gear progression is necessary. People want their time investment to mean something tangible and if it's not tangible in the part of the game they enjoy (arena) they are less likely to be active there. I don't think it's realistic to think that people either play only for gear or only for fun (competition) and any solution that serves only one of those isn't good enough.

Another huge gear disparity is the one between fresh 90's in quest gear and the people doing random bg's in almost full honor gear. I bet a lot of people are immediately and permanently turned off PvP in WoW as soon as they join their first BG, instantly die and do 0 damage. Arena #'s can't grow if new people don't have fun in any form of WoW PvP. In fact the game is old enough that most of that damage is probably done and irreparable.
Vadren#1175

#115 Braindance

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:18 PM

View PostSalutations, on 20 March 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:


Those were the best times for techno and psychedelic trance. Now kids listen to house and think they are cool. Fuck house - fuck mainstream.

Hardcore will never die faggots

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#116 Thaya

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:08 PM

View PostBraindance, on 20 March 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:


Those were the best times for techno and psychedelic trance. Now kids listen to house and think they are cool. Fuck house - fuck mainstream.

Hardcore will never die faggots
Don't have to be so negative mejt, there's tons of great house out there. Psy trance and tribal festivals are still very much alive, techno is very much alive; guess you meant hardtechno (which is also alive), and no idea what psytrance has to do with this at all.

If anything, it's hardcore that became worse since the 90s because gabber ruined itself and because hardstyle aka the worst music in the universe shaped into existence, also breakbeat hardcore died and that was the best thing ever.

Open your mind : )

Edited by Thaya, 22 March 2013 - 06:05 PM.

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#117 Filthpig

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

View PostSalutations, on 20 March 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:



This is the ugliest group of people I've ever seen.

#118 Toitles

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:31 AM

View PostFilthpig, on 20 March 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

This is the ugliest group of people I've ever seen.
Styg I know you've been to Blizzcon, why you gotta lie like that?

affix said:

The #1 sign that your thread was unnecessary is if the you can copy+paste the thread title in to google, hit 'I'm feeling lucky', and get your answer

#119 Ragingsteer

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:39 AM

You know it's bad when the honor gear is so fucking shitty it's mathematically impossible to kill a blood dk because the damage is so piss poor.
wtb D3

#120 ardnut

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

I have to agree with what Veev and Dakroth said.  There should be a clean slate to every season so people can catch up and compete.  You shouldn't have to wait months to be on a level playing field.  I do agree that there should be gear too as it adds an extra dimension for preparing for arena.
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