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Expertise Problem / Rogue problem


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#1 Jokerplex

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:35 PM

Hi all,

So i thought id keep this to one post.

First off, expertise?
I really dont understand it. Random classes are dodging my scatter shots. AND ITS FUCKING ANNOYING. Like. REALLY ANNOYING. Im way over cap.

Also, Rogues with new shruiken toss.

Has any1 else dueled any (or world pvp)? It literally seems impossible to beat.
They stealth 3 seconds opener (ok cool, fine)
Then use evasion so u literally cant hit them at all and it lasts a long time, during this they are spamming the shit out of shruiken toss, while u have kited away.

Then you die.

Help pls

#2 Kettu

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

You aren't expertise capped if people are dodging your scatter shots. Many classes have 10%+ dodge chance.

And you aren't supposed to lose to rogues 1v1 as a hunter unless you play survival.

#3 Jokerplex

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:02 PM

Ofc, I would never lose to a rogue last patch. But Double evasion with them spamming shruiken toss is retarded and i dont think you've experienced it.

#4 Snipin

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:38 PM

View PostKettu, on 12 March 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

You aren't expertise capped if people are dodging your scatter shots. Many classes have 10%+ dodge chance.

And you aren't supposed to lose to rogues 1v1 as a hunter unless you play survival.

Have you dueled a rogue on this patch?
Cloak and daggers + Shuriken toss alone is enough to win the duel for them. Shuriken toss out DPS's MM with no cds. Also, with no glyph of concussive shot, eventually they will catch up to you.

While you can win, it just doesn't feel like it's meant to happen.

#5 AcerMVP

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:57 PM

Get ripped.

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#6 Kettu

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 11:06 PM

Dueled plenty of good rogues this patch. I have yet to lose to one. But I can see why you are losing if you're mindlessly trying to outdps the evasion'd rogue who is spamming shuriken toss.

As MM, simply outplay them in the opener and you'll win.

Here's one generally simple guideline to beat them (obviously good rogues know ways to counter this but with bit of improvising, you should win every single time):

1. Crane sleep their opener
2. Pop CDs and powershot before crane sleep ends (this way your powershot won't miss)
3.Scatter the rogue at exact same time as powershot hits him. (to prevent scatter from missing / getting dodged)
4. Aimed+Chimera into scatter so neither will miss.
5. Don't fail with flare when the rogue is trying to vanish and you've won pretty much.

Trap the rogue if he trinkets crane sleep or scatter.


If you can't win, simply practice. If you can't win after a hundred duels, I suggest you spec BM and kill the rogue in a pet stun.

#7 KILLATON

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:41 AM

View PostKettu, on 12 March 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

Dueled plenty of good rogues this patch. I have yet to lose to one.

As MM, simply outplay them in the opener and you'll win.

Here's one generally simple guideline to beat them (obviously good rogues know ways to counter this but with bit of improvising, you should win every single time):



So basicly, youre doing this vs good rogues and you havent lost to one yet. But good rogues know how to counter youre strat.

ROGUECEPTION

A rogue should win every duel if he isnt completly retarded or having tons of cooldowns no matter what you do.
And "Dont fail with flare". What kind of rogue vanishes close to you? The flare has travel time if he vanishes far away you cant catch his vanish and hes gone and reopens.

And every rogue with brain opens with cloak of shadow(to counter the sleep) into evasion so you've lost already when he pops evasion.

Edited by Raphner, 13 March 2013 - 08:43 AM.

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#8 Alemecia

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

Rogue here, this was one of the most informative threads I've read on AJ.

#9 Ayume

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:37 PM

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100-0 in a 3 second stun the second I come out of stealth. You'll note I have every cd up, well you see that's because when the stun had less than 1 second left I still had over 200k life.

tldr hunters complaining about rogues makes me smile.

Edited by Ayume, 14 March 2013 - 03:44 PM.

www.twitch.tv/ayumus

#10 AcerMVP

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostAyume, on 14 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:



100-0 in a 3 second stun the second I come out of stealth. You'll note I have every cd up, well you see that's because when the stun had less than 1 second left I still had over 200k life.

tldr hunters complaining about rogues makes me smile.

Lies, you have Sprint down.

Edited by OhhiimMvp, 14 March 2013 - 04:01 PM.


#11 Filthpig

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 06:23 PM

View PostAyume, on 14 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

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100-0 in a 3 second stun the second I come out of stealth. You'll note I have every cd up, well you see that's because when the stun had less than 1 second left I still had over 200k life.

tldr hunters complaining about rogues makes me smile.

Your partners should have stopped powershot. Nothing to see here.

#12 Dagin

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostAyume, on 14 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

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100-0 in a 3 second stun the second I come out of stealth. You'll note I have every cd up, well you see that's because when the stun had less than 1 second left I still had over 200k life.

tldr hunters complaining about rogues makes me smile.

Looks like you were running smoke bomb cleave.


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#13 Zabrz

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 09:32 PM

The last 5 attacks of the hunter and his pet were critical hits and 6 of his list 9 attacks between himself and the pet were crits.  That's some pretty ridiculous luck there.  This is going to be a pretty consistent occurrence for rogues, it happened all the time last season too.  Without getting any passive survival buffs, rogues are stupidly vulnerable during stuns.  It seems like if you ever get caught in a stun without feint up you have a really good chance of dying.  The feint mechanic is clunky and not fun at all.  Would love turning it into a passive during stuns and reducing rogues offensive powers a little to compensate.
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#14 snugglebunny

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:35 PM

that's just getting outplayed

#15 GrieverZ

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 10:59 PM

View PostAyume, on 14 March 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Posted Image

100-0 in a 3 second stun the second I come out of stealth. You'll note I have every cd up, well you see that's because when the stun had less than 1 second left I still had over 200k life.

tldr hunters complaining about rogues makes me smile.

A 3 second cast with all cds up can kill someone? Mind blowing.

#16 Zabrz

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:24 PM

View PostGrieverZ, on 14 March 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

A 3 second cast with all cds up can kill someone? Mind blowing.

Why does everyone act like it is so difficult to get these spells off?  With how much CC, stuns, snares available to a hunter let alone the teammates that hunters are always paired with, powershots won't be hard to land.
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#17 GrieverZ

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 11:50 PM

View PostZabrz, on 14 March 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

Why does everyone act like it is so difficult to get these spells off?  With how much CC, stuns, snares available to a hunter let alone the teammates that hunters are always paired with, powershots won't be hard to land.

Because virtually anything from your partners (because you have some too right?) can prevent it from landing. Grip, stun, disarm, Los, lifegrip, bop, etc.

Biggest thing is that Powershot itself doesn't hit that hard, that Hunter had every single cd popped, tell me someone isn't going to die if you beat his face off with Reck+Avatar+Insignia up while nobody peels you?

Edited by GrieverZ, 14 March 2013 - 11:52 PM.


#18 Zabrz

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:10 AM

View PostGrieverZ, on 14 March 2013 - 11:50 PM, said:

Because virtually anything from your partners (because you have some too right?) can prevent it from landing. Grip, stun, disarm, Los, lifegrip, bop, etc.

Biggest thing is that Powershot itself doesn't hit that hard, that Hunter had every single cd popped, tell me someone isn't going to die if you beat his face off with Reck+Avatar+Insignia up while nobody peels you?

I think you're making it sound far more difficult to use cooldowns and land a powershot than it really is.  I agree that it can be easy to stop a hunter from doing this but I would also like to point out that it can also be pretty easy for a hunter to land one as well. Bad teams with bad hunters will use cooldowns poorly and not be able to land something like this.  Good teams with good hunters will be able to get these things off.  Should it hurt? Yes. Should it hurt as bad as shown here? I don't think so. You might disagree though.
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#19 Zabrz

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:15 AM

Personally, I hate when classes have such devastating abilities.  It reduces the number of strategies you can really use against teams that have classes like that. At least from a melee perspective, it promotes tunnel visioning.  Fighting a destro lock: Can't let him chaos bolt, gotta stay on him and lock him down.  Fighting a boomkin, same thing, don't let him starsurge.  Fighting a hunter, stay on him and be ready to gouge, KS, or CS his powershots.  

I play rogue btw, shouldn't be showing warrior as my class, just an alt I play every once and a while.
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#20 GrieverZ

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:20 AM

Being a rogue doesn't change much,  with dance and shadow blades + trinkets and other procs you can gib someone just as much too if left unpeeled. At least my rogue friend sure do.

Persoanlly i'm a fan of burst/controle playstyles so its hard for me to agree with you that it shouldn't be viable. Bad teams will also let the other team setup their damage/burst windows and lose to it. I guess for the game to be fun for you everything should be LSD or Shadowplay mirrors?




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