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[Sub] Subterfuge openers


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#1 clusky

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:30 AM

How have you guys been opening with subterfuge?
been trying to work out the best openers using subterfuge, currently I've been doing

Premed SnD > CS > garrote > ambush > evi

works pretty well, get SnD up and a bleed debuff on my target.

With marked for death I've been playing around with the following for a midgame vanish or restealth were I have a bleed debuff on my target

premed CS > Evi > MfD Evi > ambush

Its pretty crazy damage without using any major cds.

So what have you all been using?

Clustercluck said:

I'm sure your university doesn't appreciate you bloodlusting on their pianos

Kelarm said:

It's like trying to ride 3 horses with one ass.

#2 Zong

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

There's not really much way to vary it is there? I pretty much do the same except I try generally cheap last so the stun is delayed a bit for when subt. is about to break.
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#3 Mitoo

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:49 AM

View PostZong, on 11 March 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

There's not really much way to vary it is there? I pretty much do the same except I try generally cheap last so the stun is delayed a bit for when subt. is about to break.

same

#4 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:28 AM

If you time the SnD energy tick perfectly you can land Garrote/2xAmbush/Eviscerate before glyphed Garrote runs out.

If you have a bleed on the target I would CS / Ambush / Eviscerate / MfD Eviscerate. Works better combo point wise.

As a full opener in the beginning Premed -> Snd / CS / Rupture / MfD Eviscerate./ Ambush / Backstab / Eviscerate.also works.

What I like about MfD is that it allows you to add an additional burst into the mix without using dance or blades. Everyone plays Shuriken Toss but I simply love the options with MfD. Focus Kidney Shot without the Redirect GCD and warning sound is also nice.

#5 Honeyloopxd

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:26 AM

I havnt played 5.2 yet, but when i played subterfuge I used prem->cs->rupture->ambush/hemo etc... i never felt like spending all my energi for burst during subterfuge since i wouldnt use any cds anyway, and using both Cheap shot and garrote would put your target on DR for both stuns and silence  :/ But i can imagine subterfuge being used as a way to burst now with more energi and the mfd talent :)

#6 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:11 AM

My opinion is if you choose Subterfuge you should go for MfD, too. But for example Khuna is using Subterfuge and Shuriken Toss currently. Haven't heard of a top rogue not using Shuriken Toss in 5.2 up until now.

The burst is actually pretty good with this Subterfuge opener, as you have the 10% damage increase from MoS on both Eviscerates and more uptime with Find Weakness. As Engineer you can use the gloves on the openers without dance and blades.

Essentially with Subterfuge your Dance doesn't hit as hard in the first seconds, but if you can stick to the target it catches up. And you have stronger openers when you don't use dance. For PvE Subterfuge is taken over Shadow Focus for DPS reasons.

#7 mimmick

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 11 March 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

My opinion is if you choose Subterfuge you should go for MfD, too. But for example Khuna is using Subterfuge and Shuriken Toss currently. Haven't heard of a top rogue not using Shuriken Toss in 5.2 up until now.

The burst is actually pretty good with this Subterfuge opener, as you have the 10% damage increase from MoS on both Eviscerates and more uptime with Find Weakness. As Engineer you can use the gloves on the openers without dance and blades.

Essentially with Subterfuge your Dance doesn't hit as hard in the first seconds, but if you can stick to the target it catches up. And you have stronger openers when you don't use dance. For PvE Subterfuge is taken over Shadow Focus for DPS reasons.

View PostWildeHilde, on 11 March 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

My opinion is if you choose Subterfuge you should go for MfD, too. But for example Khuna is using Subterfuge and Shuriken Toss currently. Haven't heard of a top rogue not using Shuriken Toss in 5.2 up until now.

The burst is actually pretty good with this Subterfuge opener, as you have the 10% damage increase from MoS on both Eviscerates and more uptime with Find Weakness. As Engineer you can use the gloves on the openers without dance and blades.

Essentially with Subterfuge your Dance doesn't hit as hard in the first seconds, but if you can stick to the target it catches up. And you have stronger openers when you don't use dance. For PvE Subterfuge is taken over Shadow Focus for DPS reasons.
Shuriken toss just does to much damage not to get anymore even with the ranged slow gone.

#8 methodman2

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

MfD spec is good for pressure comps e.g thugcleave, whereas toss is generally better in everything else.

premed cs rup then dance is still the best rotation to do. you can still viably switch midgame with a vanish/subterfuge and do huge burst with a full energy pool and a full slice up.

#9 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

I agree, but Reckful said that using Rupture after Cheap Shot is not worth it and so a lot of rogues share this opinion.

#10 Acoustics

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:51 PM

Why?

I agree that DRing both your silence and Stun makes less sense than applying rupture for Sanguinary Veins to apply then using Ambush into an evisc.

#11 mimmick

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:26 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 11 March 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

I agree, but Reckful said that using Rupture after Cheap Shot is not worth it and so a lot of rogues share this opinion.
He hes played warrior 99% of the season got his rogue half geard in a few weeks and thinks he knows everything about it. His opinion on anything about rogues isnt worth shit.




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