Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

Speed of PvP


  • Please log in to reply
48 replies to this topic

#1 Taras

Taras
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Blackhand
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 260
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/0/2/1/1
  • RBG: 1597
  • LocationChicago

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:20 AM

I think a slower, strategy based combat would be a more fun/enjoyable/better model for wow's pvp. The model I have in mind is something similar to that of how combat was when the game first came out, and during certain other stages of it. But obviously without all the bad aspects that it had at the time. The amount of damage people did was low enough where two dpsers constantly killing each other could still have a minute or two long fight before someone died. Healers would run out of mana after certain time and would die then. Right now death comes quickly and you often don't even get to use your abilities.

This is in no way a specific description, just a general, abstract idea of a system that would need to be ironed out. But I imagine a system where a person is able to stay alive for like 30 seconds by default while doing nothing and maybe double that, so a minute, while using defensive cooldowns would be better. Healers on the other hand would just run out of mana after x amount of minutes. So it's not like a person can do nothing for 30seconds then get completely healed up and reset the fight, as at that point their healer would be down lets say 20% mana that couldnt be easily replenished. This would bring about some strategic planning of your combat that's different from current strategic decisions.

As it stands right now the game comes down a lot to individual fight mechanics. What I mean by that is that it's often "which set of skills counters that set of skills". And there's often a clear winner in that. As it stands now your regular dmg output, or constant dps has almost no effect on the outcome of the fight. You can run around pointlessly doing 0 dmg and then score a kill in two back to back stuns on a target that can't even defend itself unless they trinket. And usually the only way to deal with healing is CC/burst.

Not going to write a novel here, so TLDR version.

-less dmg, fights last much longer
-less healing, healing up takes much longer
-healers run out of mana
-avoiding dmg matters not only to avoid death, but to avoid getting out of/behind on mana
-doing constant dmg matters


P.S. Also as a side discussion, because I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. But the relative power of the stuns has increased so much in past two expantions because their durations stayed the same while other CC durations were reduced significantly. As the most powerful CC type it shouldnt continue to grow in power.

[edit] spelling & grammar, and deleted the whole twitter thing since someone changed the title of my post.

Edited by Taras, 12 March 2013 - 07:30 AM.

Underwhelmed with WoW PvP since patch 4.0.6

Posted Imagehttp://tinyurl.com/y2eqmv

#2 zaeya

zaeya
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 164
  • Talents: Discipline 1/0/1/1/2/1

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:25 AM

Just a friendly suggestion, but you should retitle this post to something more relevant to your goal and ideas.

#3 wodeta

wodeta

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:26 AM

tl;dr
Posted Image

#4 Guest_Talbadar_*

Guest_Talbadar_*

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:30 AM

Is this a troll?

#5 Taras

Taras
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Blackhand
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 260
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/0/2/1/1
  • RBG: 1597
  • LocationChicago

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:44 AM

View Postzaeya, on 09 March 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

Just a friendly suggestion, but you should retitle this post to something more relevant to your goal and ideas.
Oh but this one grabs so much more attention! :)

View Postwodeta, on 09 March 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

tl;dr
I made a section just for you :)

View PostTalbadar, on 09 March 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

Is this a troll?
No
Underwhelmed with WoW PvP since patch 4.0.6

Posted Imagehttp://tinyurl.com/y2eqmv

#6 affix

affix
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 4313
  • Talents: Frost
  • RBG: 2479

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:55 AM

mods can you ban this obvious troll?

#7 thrudgel

thrudgel
  • Junkies
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 739
  • Talents: Balance 1/2/2/0/2/2
  • RBG: 2207

Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:55 AM

slower pvp combat is retarded. I remember 2v2 s12 when warriors would shockwave peel me on cooldown because as a resto druid i want to stay catform and dps all game because the other team isn't doing anything.
Reminds me of starcraft 1 some players just build turrets and bunkers all around their base and never expand... why should they ever win.

turtles... ra ra ra

Edited by thrudgel, 09 March 2013 - 04:56 AM.


#8 affix

affix
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 4313
  • Talents: Frost
  • RBG: 2479

Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:02 AM

by the way, season 3/season 4 weren't "slow paced".  it was really fast paced and people could die in a single stun just like now.  The only thing preventing that was that lifebloom was fucking CRAZY fucking overpowered and as long as you had a stack up you were invincible.

RMP could kill people in openers.  And the mana game made stupid shit like double healer warrior or double healer hunter or, worse yet, double healer demo lock possible.

#9 Taras

Taras
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Blackhand
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 260
  • Talents: Arms 1/1/0/2/1/1
  • RBG: 1597
  • LocationChicago

Posted 09 March 2013 - 05:21 AM

View Postaffix, on 09 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

by the way, season 3/season 4 weren't "slow paced".  it was really fast paced and people could die in a single stun just like now.  The only thing preventing that was that lifebloom was fucking CRAZY fucking overpowered and as long as you had a stack up you were invincible.

RMP could kill people in openers.  And the mana game made stupid shit like double healer warrior or double healer hunter or, worse yet, double healer demo lock possible.

Where are you getting this s3/4 being slow paced from? Did someone delete their reply?

But yea, don't you think it would be a much more fun system if it wasn't possible to kill people in openers? You have a good comment about mana. It would have to be almost not replenishable within pvp combat, perhaps.
A 2dps1 healer team vs 1dps2 healer team would theoratically be evenly matched and last the same amount of time as other games. The reason why double healer teams sucked is because you couldnt run them out of mana and you couldnt kill them. So either way you were screwed. Ideally it would be balanced in a way where 2 dps doing dmg offsets 2 healers. So after, lets say 9 minutes, one of the teams would be out of mana and could no longer heal and therefore would lose.
Underwhelmed with WoW PvP since patch 4.0.6

Posted Imagehttp://tinyurl.com/y2eqmv

#10 Seu

Seu
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1484
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:09 AM

View Postaffix, on 09 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

by the way, season 3/season 4 weren't "slow paced".  it was really fast paced and people could die in a single stun just like now.  The only thing preventing that was that lifebloom was fucking CRAZY fucking overpowered and as long as you had a stack up you were invincible.

RMP could kill people in openers.  And the mana game made stupid shit like double healer warrior or double healer hunter or, worse yet, double healer demo lock possible.

really the main thing that has gotten worse from expansion to expansion is how much you/your team can feasibly do to shut burst down


burst feels worse when you cant really do anything about it

#11 Regent

Regent

Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:00 AM

View Postaffix, on 09 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

by the way, season 3/season 4 weren't "slow paced".  it was really fast paced and people could die in a single stun just like now.  The only thing preventing that was that lifebloom was fucking CRAZY fucking overpowered and as long as you had a stack up you were invincible.

RMP could kill people in openers.  And the mana game made stupid shit like double healer warrior or double healer hunter or, worse yet, double healer demo lock possible.

God forbid more than 3 comps being viable.

#12 hoodrych

hoodrych
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 345
  • Talents:

Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:42 AM

holinka for prez

#13 fant0m8

fant0m8
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 4336
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 09 March 2013 - 07:54 AM

Slow paced games are boring as fuck.

Did you not play GW2 at all? The metagame includes multiple "bunker" classes on each 5v5 team, specs that can survive 1v3 for quite a while and will literally never die 1v1.

Slow fights SUCK. I'm really glad that WoW is fast paced, WoW has always been the most fun when games actually end fast (why do you think 2v2 rewards got removed?). When you are always in danger, it takes more skill to stay alive. If you can't die for 30 seconds (wtf??) of someone beating on you, how the fuck would you ever make a mistake?


edit: Requiring constant damage is also a terrible idea. You should always need to coordinate burst to win. If you have to constantly damage for minutes at a time to get a kill, then you might as well be playing PVE and fighting a raid boss. Fuck that shit.

Edited by fant0m8, 09 March 2013 - 07:56 AM.

Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#14 Capstone

Capstone

Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:01 AM

View Postaffix, on 09 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

by the way, season 3/season 4 weren't "slow paced".  it was really fast paced and people could die in a single stun just like now.  The only thing preventing that was that lifebloom was fucking CRAZY fucking overpowered and as long as you had a stack up you were invincible.

RMP could kill people in openers.  And the mana game made stupid shit like double healer warrior or double healer hunter or, worse yet, double healer demo lock possible.
i honestly think you are misremembering the game man :( i don't remember the damage in BC being anything like it is today; at the very least the damage then was more predictable which was nice

i actually prefer the mana game and double healer warrior to being stunned into oblivion by a kfc while a hunter positions anywhere and uses 8 instant CCs on my healer

#15 Unseenz

Unseenz
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:34 AM

View PostCapstone, on 09 March 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

i honestly think you are misremembering the game man :( i don't remember the damage in BC being anything like it is today; at the very least the damage then was more predictable which was nice

i actually prefer the mana game and double healer warrior to being stunned into oblivion by a kfc while a hunter positions anywhere and uses 8 instant CCs on my healer


is the game more unfair sometimes now?

yes


is the game more fun now?

yes

#16 GrieverZ

GrieverZ
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Thaurissan
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1301
  • Talents: Marksmanship 2/0/2/0/1/0
  • 2v2: 1698
  • 3v3: 2495
  • 5v5: 1335
  • RBG: 192

Posted 09 March 2013 - 08:54 AM

View Postfant0m8, on 09 March 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Slow paced games are boring as fuck.

Did you not play GW2 at all? The metagame includes multiple "bunker" classes on each 5v5 team, specs that can survive 1v3 for quite a while and will literally never die 1v1.

Slow fights SUCK. I'm really glad that WoW is fast paced, WoW has always been the most fun when games actually end fast (why do you think 2v2 rewards got removed?). When you are always in danger, it takes more skill to stay alive. If you can't die for 30 seconds (wtf??) of someone beating on you, how the fuck would you ever make a mistake?


edit: Requiring constant damage is also a terrible idea. You should always need to coordinate burst to win. If you have to constantly damage for minutes at a time to get a kill, then you might as well be playing PVE and fighting a raid boss. Fuck that shit.

Totally agree with this, if you ever even remotely remember games agains't SL/SL Lock/Rdruid in TBC, there's no way you can want to game to return to that state.

They just need to make sure the game actually requires coordination to get kills tough, because having the game based around getting kills by popping all your cds at once on someone while chaining instant CCs isn't much better, and thats what S12 was (Hello KFC).

#17 Pawzz

Pawzz
  • Content Editors
  • Curse Premium
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 2438
  • Talents: Beast Mastery
  • LocationAustria

Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

A bit less healing and damage wouldnt hurt, especially healing.

#18 Tist

Tist

Posted 09 March 2013 - 09:26 AM

View Postaffix, on 09 March 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

by the way, season 3/season 4 weren't "slow paced".  it was really fast paced and people could die in a single stun just like now.  The only thing preventing that was that lifebloom was fucking CRAZY fucking overpowered and as long as you had a stack up you were invincible.

RMP could kill people in openers.  And the mana game made stupid shit like double healer warrior or double healer hunter or, worse yet, double healer demo lock possible.

it was a lot faster paced than people remember, but the thing that stands out IS the mana game - because that's what it boiled down to with healer/x vs healer/x teams most of the time in 2s, with 2s much more prevalent then - not to mention good double dps (usually rogue/caster) was a lot more of a rarity.

3s were as fast paced as ever aside from obnoxious drain comps - I played RLD and we consistently got kills off swaps ALL the time...and like you mentioned, RMP was just as good at devastating openers as it's ever been, relatively speaking of course.  And original shadowplay with lust - I remember watching videos back in the day of some top splay blowing people up in literally a blanket silence or coil off a trinket.

Edited by Tist, 09 March 2013 - 09:30 AM.


#19 Spinmove

Spinmove

Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:49 AM

View PostTaras, on 09 March 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

[edit] spelling & grammar

View PostTaras, on 09 March 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

(Unreal Tournament specificly, which according to holinka he played a lot of. I'd sure like to challange him 1v1 in ut2k4)

Also, your tweet was kind of rude - no wonder you got the response you did.
Posted Image

#20 diglett23

diglett23
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Area 52
  • Retaliation
  • Posts: 327
  • Talents: Holy 0/1/1/2/0/1
  • RBG: 2212

Posted 09 March 2013 - 03:39 PM

Call me crazy, but I felt that Cata had the best overall balance with healing and damage.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<