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#21 Ansi

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

GC updated on Execute change

Official Blizzard Quote:

Warrior
- Execute damage -25%.


#22 Braindance

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:47 PM

View PostAnsi, on 23 February 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

CS has a 1,5 second global cooldown. That leaves a 4,5 second -50% armor penetration window, and Slam has a 1,5 second global cooldown. That's 3 slams within the window.
Go try it and you will see that this is not the case

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#23 Ansi

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:24 PM

View PostBraindance, on 23 February 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Go try it and you will see that this is not the case

I just tested it and you're right - I can fit 4 slams into 1 CS.

But I am not wrong about both abilities having a 1,5 second global cooldown.

The last Slam hits probably 0,2-0,1 seconds before the CS armor penetration debuff falls off, so one could suspect it all just being lag. However, I tested this several times and every single time the damage on the Slam consistently did damage as if the CS debuff was on.

This - to me - newly discovered 'lag' has semilarge impact on warriors and their burst, and means Slam is not just better with RNG, but overall better within the CS window.. Unless we can fit 6 Overpowers into the CS window on PTR? I'll see if I can test.

Update
Eh, can't do 6 Overpowers, because I cannot have 6 charges of cause. So that's nigh impossible.

Update 2
I can fit 4 Slams into the CS window as long as my ping is low on PTR. It's the same case: Slam hits 0,2-0,1 seconds before the CS debuff falls off and the damage is calculated as if CS is on. I cannot do this when my ping spikes (~500 ms).

So definitely use Overpower all the time and save rage for Slam during CS.

Edited by Ansi, 23 February 2013 - 09:53 PM.


#24 Braindance

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:26 PM

View PostAnsi, on 23 February 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

I just tested it and you're right - I can fit 4 slams into 1 CS.

But I am not wrong about both abilities having a 1,5 second global cooldown.

The last Slam hits probably 0,2-0,1 seconds before the CS armor penetration debuff falls off, so one could suspect it all just being lag. However, I tested this several times and every single time the damage on the Slam consistently did damage as if the CS debuff was on.

This - to me - newly discovered 'lag' has semilarge impact on warriors and their burst, and means Slam is not just better with RNG, but overall better within the CS window.. Unless we can fit 6 Overpowers into the CS window on PTR? I'll see if I can test.
6 op is impossible since it would require and ms during cs^^

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#25 andysc

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:38 PM

I don't get how anyone can have a serious discussion about balance when changes are this sweeping. Have you guys ever read patch notes for other games? It's literally like,

"Base damage reduced from 56.5 to 55.5"

Not a whole two minutes and 20%, or -25% or anything - how can something change that drastically? I'll tell you how: because it was never balanced in the first place. It's just like, "oo remember the Mountain King? He had this Avatar move, so let's do something like that and then.. just give it random numbers."

How do people who defend the game's balance stand behind things like arena representation? Don't you think an 8% disparity or more warrants some sort of action by the design team that you're paying? People always love to talk shit about Hunters in the arena - do you think that class is fair? It's either ridiculous, or completely useless. It goes from Beastcleave to the beginning of S9 every ~18 months or so.

I do think this game has a great engine, and it did have a lot of potential. But it's been almost ten years. There's no way to see SWEEPING changes like this and think it's anywhere close to balanced. This would be the equivalent of CS:GO removing a gun, or League of Legends removing a champion ability or anything else that would not ever happen in a PvP game.

#26 Braindance

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:52 PM

View Postandysc, on 23 February 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

I don't get how anyone can have a serious discussion about balance when changes are this sweeping. Have you guys ever read patch notes for other games? It's literally like,

"Base damage reduced from 56.5 to 55.5"

Not a whole two minutes and 20%, or -25% or anything - how can something change that drastically? I'll tell you how: because it was never balanced in the first place. It's just like, "oo remember the Mountain King? He had this Avatar move, so let's do something like that and then.. just give it random numbers."

How do people who defend the game's balance stand behind things like arena representation? Don't you think an 8% disparity or more warrants some sort of action by the design team that you're paying? People always love to talk shit about Hunters in the arena - do you think that class is fair? It's either ridiculous, or completely useless. It goes from Beastcleave to the beginning of S9 every ~18 months or so.

I do think this game has a great engine, and it did have a lot of potential. But it's been almost ten years. There's no way to see SWEEPING changes like this and think it's anywhere close to balanced. This would be the equivalent of CS:GO removing a gun, or League of Legends removing a champion ability or anything else that would not ever happen in a PvP game.
What does this have to do with recklessness I'm a bit confused - it's not such a huge game changer. If you remember recklessness used to be a 30 min cooldown and 100% crit. It's not such a drastic change and it's a good quality of life improvement both for the warrior and his opponent.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#27 Moshe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:56 AM

The faster ppl realize that there will never be 100% balance, the faster we will have "balance"

#28 ardnut

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:16 PM

View Posthoodrych, on 23 February 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

if you don't slam you ain't goin..... ah fuck it

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#29 irubuwrongtime

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

I'm just going to give it to you guys short and clear on max burst during CS in PTR.

If you don't have a lot of rage.
CS -> MS -> 3 OP -> MS, fit in HS if you do have excessive rage for it.
* HS still hits as much as OP, actually a bit more only with much less crit chance.

If you do have a lot of rage.
CS -> MS -> 3 SLAM, fit in HS if you do have excessive rage for it.

Now instead of MS into 3 SLAM, 4 SLAM could do more damage, yes.  But if you think about the rage cost, you really don't wanna waste any MS cooldown.  MS gives you 2 OP while giving you 10 rage and it still hits as hard as SLAM just a bit less.  Slam just does a bit more damage for extra 30 rage, not 10 becuase you are actually losing the 10 rage you would have gotten from the MS.  You do the math.

I'm sure if next patch comes out without further change from current PTR.  Above burst sequence will be used the most by any good warrior player.  Altho, most good warrior players seem like they just keep things to themselves and don't like sharing their tactics or the burst sequence unless it means profit.  I'm just laying it out to you guys in hopes of keeping the current number of warrior players in the arena scenes.

There prolly is going to be a good number of warrior players switching back to pure opness dps monks or rogues just like how they switched to warrior this season for the same reason.  Reckful :P j/k

I think that warrior is still going to be very viable in the hands of good players and they will secure their spot in their arena teams.

Good luck to you all fellow warriors! Peace~

#30 andysc

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostMoshe, on 24 February 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

The faster ppl realize that there will never be 100% balance, the faster we will have "balance"
wow that was deep

da sooner we realize dat dere will always b war, then we will truly have peace 2

#31 xandek

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:36 PM

View PostSuperkåre, on 22 February 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Have to agree that 3 minute Recklessness CD is pretty chill.

chill +1

#32 Ansi

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 11:36 AM

View Postirubuwrongtime, on 25 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

I'm just going to give it to you guys short and clear on max burst during CS in PTR.

If you don't have a lot of rage.
CS -> MS -> 3 OP -> MS, fit in HS if you do have excessive rage for it.
* HS still hits as much as OP, actually a bit more only with much less crit chance.

If you do have a lot of rage.
CS -> MS -> 3 SLAM, fit in HS if you do have excessive rage for it.

Now instead of MS into 3 SLAM, 4 SLAM could do more damage, yes.  But if you think about the rage cost, you really don't wanna waste any MS cooldown.  MS gives you 2 OP while giving you 10 rage and it still hits as hard as SLAM just a bit less.  Slam just does a bit more damage for extra 30 rage, not 10 becuase you are actually losing the 10 rage you would have gotten from the MS.  You do the math.

I'm sure if next patch comes out without further change from current PTR.  Above burst sequence will be used the most by any good warrior player.  Altho, most good warrior players seem like they just keep things to themselves and don't like sharing their tactics or the burst sequence unless it means profit.  I'm just laying it out to you guys in hopes of keeping the current number of warrior players in the arena scenes.

There prolly is going to be a good number of warrior players switching back to pure opness dps monks or rogues just like how they switched to warrior this season for the same reason.  Reckful :P j/k

I think that warrior is still going to be very viable in the hands of good players and they will secure their spot in their arena teams.

Good luck to you all fellow warriors! Peace~

Slam is 20 rage in 5.2

#33 ardnut

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:03 PM

View PostAnsi, on 27 February 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Slam is 20 rage in 5.2

He is referring to using slam over MS... so you don't gain 10 rage and spend 20 so it's a loss of 30 in a way... but actually you will just delay gaining the 10 rage by 1.5 seconds.
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#34 irubuwrongtime

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

View Postirubuwrongtime, on 25 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Slam just does a bit more damage for extra 30 rage, not 10 becuase you are actually losing the 10 rage you would have gotten from the MS.

What I meant to say is 20 instead of 10. :)  SLAM does a bit more damage than MS for extra 30 rage, not extra 20 rage because, you gain 10 rage from MS.  Hope that's more clear to everyone.

View Postardnut, on 27 February 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

He is referring to using slam over MS... so you don't gain 10 rage and spend 20 so it's a loss of 30 in a way... but actually you will just delay gaining the 10 rage by 1.5 seconds.

My burst sequece above is CS -> MS -> 3 SLAM, always MS before the 3 SLAM right after CS, this way you can MS again right after 3 SLAM into 3 OP for anohter MS after 4.5 sec instead of 6 sec.  I'm just saying don't waste MS cooldown over SLAM in any cases.


This is just the basic but If you do get a sudden death proc during the CS duration.  Save it until CS duration is over and if you can, also save it until MS cooldown is up again before using CS for maximum burst.  Instead of something like, CS -> 2 OP -> MS -> 2 OP.  MS cooldown comes back fairly quick and you want to do max burst with every CS you get.  That's just my opinion. :) You don't have to buy it.

#35 Ansi

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

Appearently Elitist jerks figured out the CS debuff has a ~250 ms delay when being applied.

That explains the strange reason why you can fit 4 slams into the CS window.

Now to calculate what the -0.5 second cooldownreduction on MS per OP means to PvP

#36 Braindance

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:19 PM

View PostAnsi, on 06 March 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Appearently Elitist jerks figured out the CS debuff has a ~250 ms delay when being applied.

That explains the strange reason why you can fit 4 slams into the CS window.

Now to calculate what the -0.5 second cooldownreduction on MS per OP means to PvP
It means ms op op slam slam in cs

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#37 Ansi

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:33 PM

View PostBraindance, on 06 March 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

It means ms op op slam slam in cs

MS will be off cooldown after your first slam. You prioritize slam over MS within CS window?

#38 Braindance

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostAnsi, on 06 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

MS will be off cooldown after your first slam. You prioritize slam over MS within CS window?
yes

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#39 Deonto

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:55 PM

I truly believe that in pvp, you should be doing MS>Slam in CS. And just forget about OP procs. If you're going after consistent damage over a decent period of time, then you should worry about keeping your OP procs low. But generally that's not the case outside of 2v2.

Related to the reck change, I think it's just awesome. It makes storm bolt/bloodbath feel a bit better(as we actually have a decent on use CD every 3mins now w/o avatar).

Edited by Deonto, 06 March 2013 - 11:59 PM.

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#40 Braindance

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:26 AM

View PostDeonto, on 06 March 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

I truly believe that in pvp, you should be doing MS>Slam in CS. And just forget about OP procs. If you're going after consistent damage over a decent period of time, then you should worry about keeping your OP procs low. But generally that's not the case outside of 2v2.

Related to the reck change, I think it's just awesome. It makes storm bolt/bloodbath feel a bit better(as we actually have a decent on use CD every 3mins now w/o avatar).

View PostDeonto, on 06 March 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

I truly believe that in pvp, you should be doing MS>Slam in CS. And just forget about OP procs. If you're going after consistent damage over a decent period of time, then you should worry about keeping your OP procs low. But generally that's not the case outside of 2v2.

Related to the reck change, I think it's just awesome. It makes storm bolt/bloodbath feel a bit better(as we actually have a decent on use CD every 3mins now w/o avatar).
Can you elaborate on that because it makes no sense to me

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...




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