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Recklessness cooldown lowered to 3 min


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#1 Ansi

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:28 AM

Official Blizzard Quote:

http://www.mmo-champ...9;]Recklessness[/url] – We are going to lower Recklessness to 3 min cooldown, 30% crit (down from 5 min, 50%). We will have to adjust the Glyph of Recklessness and T14 4pc (and probably other mechanics I forgot) to keep them at the same relative power. We’re trying to move away from very long cooldowns, especially those without a lot of visual noise (e.g. a 1 min Army of the Dead would be pretty annoying to see, but Recklessness is pretty chill). It would let Recklessness line up better with Skull Banner (and maybe we would eventually just merge the two buttons), and have the added bonus of reducing warrior burst in PvP while still giving them more frequent use of the CD to avoid that all eggs in one basket feeling.

Official Blizzard Quote:

http://www.mmo-champ...t/']Warrior[/url] – we reverted the nerfs to Bloodthirst, Colossus Smash and Raging Blow. We planned on taking the damage out of Execute instead, but before we do that, we’re concerned that the actual problem is the legendary meta-gem being too good for warriors, and we don’t think it’s fair to nerf all warriors because of an item that nobody will have for some time. We may nerf the metagem for warriors instead.

Update

Official Blizzard Quote:

Warrior
- Execute damage -25%.


Same DPS, different wrapping and less burst overall.

But this change should allow for smoother gameplay where we don't have to wait 5 minuttes to line up maximum pressure.

I also like the Execute change for PvP since we use that button so rarely. It would be nice to have Execute hit like Shadowburn, but higher overall damage, combined with our high target uptime, should allow for good Warrior viability.

Looks like we're going to have good damage in 5.2, and with mongo-stuns gone and stancedancing back, proper warriors should once again get the respect they deserve.

Edited by Ansi, 23 February 2013 - 08:38 PM.


#2 Pinka

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:32 AM

I think it is great. If they tweak with our survival in battle stance a little bit this will make a good season.

#3 Ansi

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:44 AM

In an ideal situation...

5 stack Taste for Blood > Mortal Strike critical / (Berserker Rage) > Avatar/Bloodbath > Recklessness > Skull Banner > Colossus Smash > 5 Overpowers with +99% critical chance and 20% bonus to critical damage on a target with -50% armor.

With the 50% haste buff and Colossus Smash proc change we should also have more interesting choices between secondary stats instead of just aiming for all critical.

#4 Superkåre

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:23 PM

Have to agree that 3 minute Recklessness CD is pretty chill.

#5 Feliclandelo

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

Finally barkskin will actually be worth glyphed against Warriors :)

#6 aldreya

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:26 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 22 February 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

Finally barkskin will actually be worth glyphed against Warriors :)

Humm i dont think so. The glyph reduce the chance to be critically hit by 25% but in the following way: if a warrior has a chance to crit u by 40%, u reduce that chance by 25%, so he ´ll crit u with 30% chance (40%, base and reducing this 40 by 25% ).

so, with the new reckleness, the glyph will reduce 7,5%, with the current reckleness the glyph reduce 12,5%.

Edited by aldreya, 22 February 2013 - 01:27 PM.


#7 Poseyx

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostAnsi, on 22 February 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

Official Blizzard Quote:

http://www.mmo-champ...9;]Recklessness[/url] – We are going to lower Recklessness to 3 min cooldown, 30% crit (down from 5 min, 50%). We will have to adjust the Glyph of Recklessness and T14 4pc (and probably other mechanics I forgot) to keep them at the same relative power. We’re trying to move away from very long cooldowns, especially those without a lot of visual noise (e.g. a 1 min Army of the Dead would be pretty annoying to see, but Recklessness is pretty chill). It would let Recklessness line up better with Skull Banner (and maybe we would eventually just merge the two buttons), and have the added bonus of reducing warrior burst in PvP while still giving them more frequent use of the CD to avoid that all eggs in one basket feeling.

Official Blizzard Quote:

http://www.mmo-champ...t/']Warrior[/url] – we reverted the nerfs to Bloodthirst, Colossus Smash and Raging Blow. We planned on taking the damage out of Execute instead, but before we do that, we’re concerned that the actual problem is the legendary meta-gem being too good for warriors, and we don’t think it’s fair to nerf all warriors because of an item that nobody will have for some time. We may nerf the metagem for warriors instead.


Same DPS, different wrapping and less burst overall.

But this change should allow for smoother gameplay where we don't have to wait 5 minuttes to line up maximum pressure.

I also like the Execute change for PvP since we use that button so rarely. It would be nice to have Execute hit like Shadowburn, but higher overall damage, combined with our high target uptime, should allow for good Warrior viability.

Looks like we're going to have good damage in 5.2, and with mongo-stuns gone and stancedancing back, proper warriors should once again get the respect they deserve.

hah
www.Twitch.tv/wushington - Multi Gladiator feral stream

Mrlindv - Youtube channel

#8 Hyrmine

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:39 PM

Yes time to respect some random nerd.

#9 Braindance

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:52 PM

Using overpower during reck unless necessary is a huge loss of damage - it's way better to get full rage and get 4-5 slams

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#10 Ansi

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:32 PM

View PostBraindance, on 22 February 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Using overpower during reck unless necessary is a huge loss of damage - it's way better to get full rage and get 4-5 slams

Not necessarily.

Slam costs twice the rage, has a ~45% crit chance during Recklessness and a 1,5 sec global cooldown.

Overpower has 100% crit (during Reck), 1 sec global cooldown and ensures Deep Wounds which now does double damage.

Slam hits harder if you get lucky with RNG, but I definitely don't see a 'huge loss of damage', as you describe, within the burst window.

Edited by Ansi, 23 February 2013 - 10:38 AM.


#11 Braindance

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:41 PM

View PostAnsi, on 22 February 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Not necessarily.

Slam costs twice the rage, has a ~45% crit chance during Recklessness and a 1,5 sec global cooldown.

Overpower has 100% crit (during Reck), 1 sec global cooldown and causes Deep Wounds which now does double damage.

Slam hits much harder if you get lucky with RNG, but I definitely don't see a 'huge loss of damage', as you describe, within the burst window.
A single slam does more or less the same damage as an ovepower crit. Deeps wounds come for ms. Some back of the envelope math:

5 overpowers in a cs=(105% weap dmg)*5*2=1050% weapon damage IF all ops crit
4 non crit slams in a cs=(220% weap damage+slam base damage)*4=880% weapon damage+5*slam base damage
3 non crit slams 1 crit slam=1100% weapon damage + 7*slam base damage
2 non crit slams 2 crit slam=1320% weapon damage+ 9*slam base damage

Counting banner which is 20% more crit damage op will do 105*2.2=231% weapon damage

While slam does (220%+base damage)*2.2=484+2.2base damage

I think it's obvious why slam is way better during cds

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#12 Sweatyfingrs

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:34 AM

Yeah I'd really appreciate it if you don't go telling warriors how they can do even more damage in burst.  It's just one of those things I'm sure the community would appreciate if it was kept a secret
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#13 hoodrych

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 04:23 AM

if you don't slam you ain't goin..... ah fuck it

#14 Covlol

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:26 AM

View Posthoodrych, on 23 February 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

if you don't slam you ain't goin..... ah fuck it

Da Boss has spoken :D
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#15 Braindance

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:47 AM

View PostCovlol, on 23 February 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

Da Boss has spoken :D
Y but i did the math as always - always me doing the dirty work. For that I ain't gonna tell you what I found with my simulations for the stat weights

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#16 Ansi

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:33 AM

View PostBraindance, on 22 February 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

A single slam does more or less the same damage as an ovepower crit. Deeps wounds come for ms. Some back of the envelope math:

5 overpowers in a cs=(105% weap dmg)*5*2=1050% weapon damage IF all ops crit
4 non crit slams in a cs=(220% weap damage+slam base damage)*4=880% weapon damage+5*slam base damage
3 non crit slams 1 crit slam=1100% weapon damage + 7*slam base damage
2 non crit slams 2 crit slam=1320% weapon damage+ 9*slam base damage

Counting banner which is 20% more crit damage op will do 105*2.2=231% weapon damage

While slam does (220%+base damage)*2.2=484+2.2base damage

I think it's obvious why slam is way better during cds

Slam is better, though we cannot fit 4 slams into the CS Window, we can only fit 3.

3 Slams during CS+cooldowns:
A total of 660% weapon damage + a total of 2991 bonus damage (has aprox 45% chance to crit)
Costs 60 rage

4 Overpower during CS+cooldowns:
A total of 1008% weapon damage (all criticals with reck+skull banner)
Costs 40 rage

In a PvE situation (with PvE buffs too), Slam is better.

But unless we PvP'd on PTR we don't know how valueable the nerfed rage is.

If we're raged starved, Overpower delivers pressure while still leaving us enough rage for an extra slam outside the cooldown window. Or if we're lucky Sudden Death procs during it, and we can spend the rage we saved on a Slam.

Latest stat values are on Elistist Jerks:

Quote

Wdps > Hit > Exp > Str > Haste > Crit > Mastery ~= AP > Agi

Here's Simulationcraft on 5.2.

In PvE haste is slightly better than crit, while crit is clearly better than Mastery. This does not answer for PvP since we have less uptime, but gain rage from Second Wind.

E.g. I'll go haste till my rage generation feels comfortable, then Mastery to increase the chance of Sudden Death procs during cooldowns.

#17 Covlol

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:45 AM

View PostBraindance, on 23 February 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Y but i did the math as always - always me doing the dirty work. For that I ain't gonna tell you what I found with my simulations for the stat weights

no sir u misunderstand, that is just me being a hoodrych fan boy
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#18 Ayrasaurus

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:24 PM

Stolen from my dk friend Raf


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#19 Braindance

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostAnsi, on 23 February 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:


You can get 4 slams and 5 ops in CS - go try it. Simcraft is not updated for the Reck change and the cs change (procs on mastery) so the stats weights you report are not 100% correct :D

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#20 Ansi

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

View PostBraindance, on 23 February 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

You can get 4 slams and 5 ops in CS - go try it. Simcraft is not updated for the Reck change and the cs change (procs on mastery) so the stats weights you report are not 100% correct :D


CS has a 1,5 second global cooldown. That leaves a 4,5 second -50% armor penetration window, and Slam has a 1,5 second global cooldown. That's 3 slams within the window.




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