21 replies to this topic

[Ancientpala]

Hello this is my first post on ArenaJunkies, and as the title says I want to talk about the low amount of arena players.

Blizzard will be adding rating inflation for the next patch, which I dont think will make much more players play arena instead of RBG. A few will probably start arena, as they can get higher rating without playing better, due to the inflation.

My thoughts:
I have been thinking about the fact that blizzard balanced the game around 3v3 (at least in the past, maybe they balance it around rbgs now, I dont know). But after the implementation of rbgs, the amount of players who play 3v3 has gone down. I believe that many of those players who used to play 3v3, are now playing rbgs.
If you look back at what blizzard has said in the past, they thought that 5v5 was to hard for players to organize, and therefore 3v3 became the bracket they wanted to balance out. This however is not the case for rbgs, as they are played by a lot of people, and require even more effort (in theory) to organize as it is 10v10.

The reason why rbgs despite requiring 10 people, are being played so much, is because there are no teams. In arena you need to be on the same team to play, which is why so many people just play rbgs.

My idea: (TL;DR)
My idea would be to remove the teams from arena. Everyone would have personal rating, and the end of season rewards (the rank 1 rewards) will be rewarded to 3 people instead of 1 team (for 5v5 obviously 5 people would get it). This would create a much more dynamic style of the game, as players will look for other players who has around the same current arena rating as themselves.

I know there might be some problems with implementing this, and things I have not thought about. But I think change plus the rating inflation, actually could have a big impact on the ladders, and make them a lot more active.
What do you guys think??

[Durial]

It's not that nobody can think of ideas' which may help or may improve the game in a major way. The problem is that Blizzard do not read posts from the public regarding PvP ideas or suggestions, and if they do, they don't take any notice to it. Thats the problem

[thrudgel]

imo final patch season9 had major participation, mainly because everyone kept going up rating the more they played, even on crappy blue geared alts.

Season10 killed arena because players could not achieve their previous mmr/cr ever again.

Many WoW Players are sore losers so blizzards solution is permanent inflation like end of season9. A system where everyone beats their own goals, can get all achievements, and their comparative ratings become meaningless

Edited by thrudgel, 15 February 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[Zub]

Ancientpala, on 15 February 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

The reason why rbgs despite requiring 10 people, are being played so much, is because there are no teams. In arena you need to be on the same team to play, which is why so many people just play rbgs.

The reason for RBG popularity isn't because there are no teams though, it's because people get far more reward (titles, mounts, easier access to T2, significantly higher point cap) more easily (lower individual skill needed); so I don't think this idea will have much of an impact on arena participation at all.

[deprivelol]

rbgs give a higher cap then arenas

[Kettu]

Durial, on 15 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

Blizzard do not read posts from the public regarding PvP ideas or suggestions

Why are you spreading wrong information?

[Mirionx]

Durial, on 15 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

The problem is that Blizzard do not read posts from the public regarding PvP ideas or suggestions

https://twitter.com/...247409575198720

Nakatoir's private twitter account("PvP" CM on EU, reads AJ regularly).

Why do you think they reverted the blanket CS change. GC said himself it was because "Many very high rated players thought we were doing a mistake".

That wasn't the feedback from the official forums at least.

[Omglockzorx]

another problem is that people cba gearing their alts and play arena on them, because of this retarded upgrade shit.

[thrudgel]

deprivelol, on 15 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

rbgs give a higher cap then arenas

This is true

s6 89200
s7 89000
s8 117200 (very very long season)
s9 97200 (slight increase because of alt creation)
s10 64000
s11 47000
s12 ~25000
There should be ~89,000 arena teams based on the mode of s6 s7 but the mmr nerf since s10 has halted player pvp progression. And of course the 22.2% rated battlegrounds cap starting s10.

The question is, do most people RBG
1. to gear for RBG
2. to gear for 3v3
3. to gear for randombg
4. to get weapon/ilvl for pvE

Edited by thrudgel, 15 February 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[Icekingx]

Aslong as Rbgs gives a higher point cap people will still spam Rbgs to get high point camp from there. Though a few people rather do Rbgs over arena and find them more enjoyable Bailamos and a few others. Pretty sure the reason why Rbg gives a higher cap over arena I think blizzard believes "It's harder to get 9 other people and play vs getting 2 other people or 4 other people for 3s/5s so lets give group of 10 a higher point cap over the group of 3/5"

[Ancientpala]

Zub, on 15 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

The reason for RBG popularity isn't because there are no teams though, it's because people get far more reward (titles, mounts, easier access to T2, significantly higher point cap) more easily (lower individual skill needed); so I don't think this idea will have much of an impact on arena participation at all.

Maybe the mounts and titles are very attractive aswell, but I think we need ideas that will make arena more attractive. In the ideal world i would remove rbgs.... But I think this will make it a lot nicer and easier for casual players to get into arena, as they can play with anyone.

[Kettu]

thrudgel, on 15 February 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Many WoW Players are sore losers so blizzards solution is permanent inflation

Really?

thrudgel, on 15 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is true, but don't forget that s10 started the decline in arena participation.

s6 89200
s7 89000
s8 117200 (very very long season)
s9 97200 (slight increase because of alt creation)
s10 64000
s11 47000
s12 ~25000
There should be ~89,000 arena players based on the mode of s6 s7 but the mmr nerf since s10 has halted player pvp progression

These numbers sound like total bullshit.

[Mirionx]

thrudgel, on 15 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is true, but don't forget that s10 started the decline in arena participation.

s6 89200
s7 89000
s8 117200 (very very long season)
s9 97200 (slight increase because of alt creation)
s10 64000
s11 47000
s12 ~25000
There should be ~89,000 arena players based on the mode of s6 s7 but the mmr nerf since s10 has halted player pvp progression

Where did you get those numbers?

[thrudgel]

my calculation of number of glads per season (3v3 only) divided by .005 = total number of teams. You're right, multiply that by 3 maybe for number of players. The only number that is fact is number of gladiator teams, everything else is a rough estimate.

s3 1582 = 316400 teams = 949200 3v3 players (29 weeks)
s4 878 = 175600 teams = 526800 3v3 players (17 weeks)
s5 385 = 77000 teams = 231000 3v3 players (17 weeks)
s6 446 = 89200 teams = 267600 3v3 players (18 weeks)
s7 445 = 89000 teams = 267000 3v3 players (20 weeks)
s8 586 = 117200 teams = 351600 3v3 players (37 weeks)
s9 486 = 97200 teams = 291600 3v3 players (28 weeks)

+%22.2 Rated battlegrounds cap increase implemented
s10 320 = 64000 teams = 192000 3v3 players (21 weeks)
s11 235 = 47000 teams = 141000 3v3 players (38 weeks)
s12 ~125 = 25000 teams = 75000 3v3 players
RBG cap increase is killing arena.

My opinion about mmr nerf s10 killing interest&pvp progression is one of the many reasons participation has decreased since then, not an important reason by any means. The reason I refer back to season9 inflation is because I remember a lot of activity at that time, particularly by average players wanting their 2400 achievements.

Will blizz plans for mmr inflation increase participation s13? I actually think a lot more will quit s13, I won't be on much. The only way arena participation will go up is if they do a huge promo for arena, like for every active arena team blizz donates x dollars to players

EDIT: NORTH AMERICA ONLY

Edited by thrudgel, 15 February 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[Thaya]

thrudgel, on 15 February 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

my calculation of number of glads per season (3v3 only) divided by .005 = total number of teams. You're right, multiply that by 3 maybe for number of players. The only number that is fact is number of gladiator teams, everything else is a rough estimate.

Before somebody else says this: a huge fraction of ranked teams aren't complete and/or were created by the same players. It's not just a "rough estimate", it's not even close to the real numbers, HOWEVER, this number is totally fine to look at to see how activity declined. Which also means you don't really need to multiply anything or try to estimate amount of players, just looking at the # of Glad spots is enough to see that.

Basically, disregard these numbers and just look at how fewer Glad spots there were each season relatively to the previous. You get the exact same picture from that anyway, without confusing people.

Edited by Thaya, 15 February 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[ardnut]

thrudgel, on 15 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

This is true

s6 89200
s7 89000
s8 117200 (very very long season)
s9 97200 (slight increase because of alt creation)
s10 64000
s11 47000
s12 ~25000
There should be ~89,000 arena teams based on the mode of s6 s7 but the mmr nerf since s10 has halted player pvp progression. And of course the 22.2% rated battlegrounds cap starting s10.

The question is, do most people RBG
1. to gear for RBG
2. to gear for 3v3
3. to gear for randombg
4. to get weapon/ilvl for pvE

As a player who has only managed 2.2k in 3v3, I RBG'd because I didn't believe 2.2k was possible in 3v3 with out the T2 weapon.  I just hit a wall of gladiator's with T2's at about 2.1k mmr... we could never get past 2.1k rating.  Me and hunter got the T2 from RBG and all of a sudden our skills improved and we got 2.2k in 3v3.

Edited by ardnut, 15 February 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[Zub]

Ancientpala, on 15 February 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Maybe the mounts and titles are very attractive aswell, but I think we need ideas that will make arena more attractive. In the ideal world i would remove rbgs.... But I think this will make it a lot nicer and easier for casual players to get into arena, as they can play with anyone.

The incentives continually being created for RBGs only serve to draw more people away from arenas. As it stands, the changes planned for next season could make this significantly worse because having a massive point cap is the only thing that matters for obtaining elite gear and people will even gain points towards their weekly cap for losses. At the very least 3v3 should give the same cap as RBG, if not higher, because there will be virtually no reason to participate in arenas outside of getting gladiator or playing for fun. This is an MMO and most of the playerbase isn't going to have the same mindset as someone on AJ, they want things like the best gear or titles/mounts and gladiator is an incentive out of reach for 99% of them.

[Ancientpala]

Zub, on 15 February 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

The incentives continually being created for RBGs only serve to draw more people away from arenas. As it stands, the changes planned for next season could make this significantly worse because having a massive point cap is the only thing that matters for obtaining elite gear and people will even gain points towards their weekly cap for losses. At the very least 3v3 should give the same cap as RBG, if not higher, because there will be virtually no reason to participate in arenas outside of getting gladiator or playing for fun. This is an MMO and most of the playerbase isn't going to have the same mindset as someone on AJ, they want things like the best gear or titles/mounts and gladiator is an incentive out of reach for 99% of them.

Yes I agree with everything you said. The change that i wanted, is just something that would make arenas even more attractive. I also think arena should give the same cap as rbg, if not more.

[Classiks]

IMO they should just get rid of ratings and give us a ladder system like SC2 has...

[ApplejackxD]

thrudgel, on 15 February 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

imo final patch season9 had major participation, mainly because everyone kept going up rating the more they played, even on crappy blue geared alts.

Season10 killed arena because players could not achieve their previous mmr/cr ever again.

Many WoW Players are sore losers so blizzards solution is permanent inflation like end of season9. A system where everyone beats their own goals, can get all achievements, and their comparative ratings become meaningless

This, pretty much. Still only 0.5% who get's gladiator though, that means the best players will still get the best rewards but there wont be scrubs who rush it the first week and then camp it out.