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Balance is not the biggest problem, systems are


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#21 Crawthz

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

Increase arena activity by implementing titles from 1500-2400. RBG activity has gone way up and it's rewarding. Think about the PvE player who joins RBG's and gets title for every 2nd game he wins? I think he finds it way more satisfying than arenas.

Suggestion:
Add arena titles from earning rating every season which are wiped off at the end of season, ranging from 1500-2400
Add season specific Arena Master titles - Malevolent Arena Master for example, wipe it off at end of season
Keep the Challenger, Rival, Duelist and Gladiator as they are

Currently PvE takes so much of your gametime if you want to play it that there is no time for doing arenas except for the cap. And even if you cap, you will still face full geared players with RBG t2 and you feel shit and quit. Adding reward system to incite low level players while keeping the high-end achievements and titles the same would certainly drive some PvE players more into arena and would increase activity all together.

I know most of you will say "fuck titles, who cares?" Well, there are people who actually do care(PvE players), like the players who quit this season because there's nothing to gain, nothing to aim for because you get roflstomped by the players who only do PvP. Getting rewarded even by a title every 100 or 200 rating in arenas would, in my opinion, increase the whole arena activity.

Edited by Crawthz, 14 February 2013 - 06:42 PM.

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#22 Regent

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 14 February 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Increase arena activity by implementing titles from 1500-2400. RBG activity has gone way up and it's rewarding. Think about the PvE player who joins RBG's and gets title for every 2nd game he wins? I think he finds it way more satisfying than arenas.

Suggestion:
Add arena titles from earning rating every season which are wiped off at the end of season, ranging from 1500-2400
Add season specific Arena Master titles - Malevolent Arena Master for example, wipe it off at end of season
Keep the Challenger, Rival, Duelist and Gladiator as they are

Currently PvE takes so much of your gametime if you want to play it that there is no time for doing arenas except for the cap. And even if you cap, you will still face full geared players with RBG t2 and you feel shit and quit. Adding reward system to incite low level players while keeping the high-end achievements and titles the same would certainly drive some PvE players more into arena and would increase activity all together.

I know most of you will say "fuck titles, who cares?" Well, there are people who actually do care(PvE players), like the players who quit this season because there's nothing to gain, nothing to aim for because you get roflstomped by the players who only do PvP. Getting rewarded even by a title every 100 or 200 rating in arenas would, in my opinion, increase the whole arena activity.

They should just add more cool mounts/tabards/gear, people like cool looking stuff.

#23

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:23 PM

Shit loads of tabards, pets, mounts, random titles, and equivalent to challenge mode gear would be cool, things like that would drastically increase arena participation. Half the people that would sign up for the tr when it was actually popular just did it for the pet.  They all need to be season specific though so it stays constant from season to season, Malevolent Gladiators Tabard, Malevolent Arena Master, Malevolent Gladiators <insert pet/mount> and make most of it relatively easy to attain so the masses can do it without too much difficulty.

Starting mmr needs to be drastically reduced too, I can't imagine how awful it is for a brand new lvl 90 who has never arena'd/pvpd before queuing for a 2s match and getting full Malevolent Warrior/hunter teams over and over at 1500 1400 1300 down to like 1000 before they can actually win games.

#24 johnaggro

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 14 February 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Shit loads of tabards, pets, mounts, random titles, and equivalent to challenge mode gear would be cool, things like that would drastically increase arena participation. Half the people that would sign up for the tr when it was actually popular just did it for the pet.  They all need to be season specific though so it stays constant from season to season, Malevolent Gladiators Tabard, Malevolent Arena Master, Malevolent Gladiators <insert pet/mount> and make most of it relatively easy to attain so the masses can do it without too much difficulty.

Starting mmr needs to be drastically reduced too, I can't imagine how awful it is for a brand new lvl 90 who has never arena'd/pvpd before queuing for a 2s match and getting full Malevolent Warrior/hunter teams over and over at 1500 1400 1300 down to like 1000 before they can actually win games.
if u check blizzard post they dont care about 2s or 5vs5 and not meany people do care anyway,like 905 of multi r1players play 2s at 1500 mmr they only play for cap or for fun so notting u can do there

#25 Salutations

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

cba to read your thread bro, it's too long but here is the only way to fix the game.

1) bring back skirmish : have been asking to get them back since 2 years now, but they don't care about players opinion, only $ matter.

2) delete rbg : not gonna happen because all the rbg scrubs will whine as fuck cuz arena is too hard xD !

3) balancing : fixing a class after a season make no sense, it needs to be fixed during a current season with hotfixes, but they can't get it unfortunately, some class are completely unplayable/godmod during a whole season because of that ...

Blizzard think like that about balancing :
- You play the FoTM class ? profit and enjoy being godmod til next patch.
- You play the shit class ? Shut up and stop the game til next patch noob.

Edited by ezeaz, 14 February 2013 - 07:52 PM.


#26 johnaggro

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:30 PM

View Postjohnaggro, on 14 February 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

if u check blizzard post they dont care about 2s or 5vs5 and not meany people do care anyway,like 905 of multi r1players play 2s at 1500 mmr they only play for cap or for fun so notting u can do there
90% not 905 lol

#27 johnaggro

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:33 PM

View Postezeaz, on 14 February 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

1) bring back skirmish
2) delete rbg
3) fix some classes
4) Profit, WoW is now #1 game world

but not gonna happen :P
rbg is there for shit people to be able to pvp,not saying all of them are bad but a lot of them are but can still get rating in rbg as its very easy all u need is a good target caller and just lissin,job done u are now 2.4+ in rbg if u can do that,

#28 Djandawg

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:52 PM

Yeah RBG definitely harms the arena participation.I am in a friends' guild, I know at least 10 people who have 2500 rbg xp(without cheating /wintrading / bugging this season), most of them don't even have 2k arena achievement.
Since RBG success requires being a "tactical genius" and an amazing team player, Is it a  coincidence that such great players don't have 2k achievement in arena with 5k+ games played? No, RBGs are simply too easy for T2-ish level, you can obtain 2400 rating without knowing/instantly reacting to a vast majority of enemy cooldowns.
Look at the trade chat, bunch of T2 class x , LF serious 3v3 with 1750 achis. People will always go for the easier and more rewarding way to reach a certain outcome.

That's why RBGs should not award T2. T2 should be available to 2.2k 3v3 rated players because it gives 1900-2100 people incentive to improve, keeps brackets active. 2400 is getting glad in most bgs,so 1900-2100 bracket being active is really good.

Another thing is, they released the expansion without testing for PVP, ended up swallowing their words after months, i.e Stampede "bug" , "300k warrior crits happen only in videos" etc. I think many people who don't play / aim higher levels quit arenas because of those one shots remaining in the game for a long time. As a result of that, 10 teams get glad in many bgs.

Edited by Djandawg, 14 February 2013 - 08:00 PM.


#29 Kreeds

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:12 PM

Arena is done, get over it already...

#30 Regent

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:13 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 14 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

As a result of that, 10 teams get glad in many bgs.

Most BGs are like 5-8.

Participation is soooo low. Rating just becomes more and more deflated. Why do they have the 2700 achievement still in the game? It isn't possible to get. In Wrath I can't remember ever waiting in queue for more than 10 minutes. In MoP the average queue time is 10 minutes.

#31 Crawthz

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:26 PM

View PostRegent, on 14 February 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Most BGs are like 5-8.

Funny thing is, EU and US combined 3s grants less titles than certain battlegroups alone in Season 3. That much less activity is now than it used to be >.<
On average there is 11 spots in US and EU.
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#32 Regent

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:55 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 14 February 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Funny thing is, EU and US combined 3s grants less titles than certain battlegroups alone in Season 3. That much less activity is now than it used to be >.<
On average there is 11 spots in US and EU.

Yeah, its pretty sad =*(

#33 Hackattack3

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:42 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 14 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

Yeah RBG definitely harms the arena participation.I am in a friends' guild, I know at least 10 people who have 2500 rbg xp(without cheating /wintrading / bugging this season), most of them don't even have 2k arena achievement.
Since RBG success requires being a "tactical genius" and an amazing team player, Is it a  coincidence that such great players don't have 2k achievement in arena with 5k+ games played? No, RBGs are simply too easy for T2-ish level, you can obtain 2400 rating without knowing/instantly reacting to a vast majority of enemy cooldowns.
Look at the trade chat, bunch of T2 class x , LF serious 3v3 with 1750 achis. People will always go for the easier and more rewarding way to reach a certain outcome.

That's why RBGs should not award T2. T2 should be available to 2.2k 3v3 rated players because it gives 1900-2100 people incentive to improve, keeps brackets active. 2400 is getting glad in most bgs,so 1900-2100 bracket being active is really good.


I would even take this a step further.  Use a 3 tier gearing system similar to raiding (RF, normal, and Heroic gear).  Let's us this season's gear as an example:


T1 (Dreadful) ~ honor points, acquired from pvp oriented tasks and random BGs, like now

T2 (Dreadful/Mal hybrid) ~ conquest Jr. points, bridges the gap between the punishing blues to purple range.  Points only awarded through RBGs

T3 (Mal) ~ conquest points, only from arenas obviously


I'm even OK with try hards that cap arenas and RBgs on a weekly basis to have an advantage over me.  

The current system doesn't make sense to award the best gear for much easier "content" in rbgs.  It would be like me bitching to blizzard that I want a heroic trinket but want to only do normal mode to get it.

#34 insanepimpmobile

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:45 PM

I have an interesting idea, what if they brought back the Arena Master title and just made the requirements for the title 2400 rating in each bracket. Each season the title would go away and reset. So during the season we had some thing to work for instead of just a glad title at the end of the season. If arena participation was too low maybe lower the requirements alittle bit. I would personally feel more compelled to que more arena in each bracket.

#35 Regent

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:52 PM

View Postinsanepimpmobile, on 14 February 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

I have an interesting idea, what if they brought back the Arena Master title and just made the requirements for the title 2400 rating in each bracket. Each season the title would go away and reset. So during the season we had some thing to work for instead of just a glad title at the end of the season. If arena participation was too low maybe lower the requirements alittle bit. I would personally feel more compelled to que more arena in each bracket.

I like the idea, but what if it was just a new title for every season.

2200 in all brackets in one season = Malevolent Pugilist, and a new title each season. Similar to the rank 1 titles, but obviously less prestigious.

#36 Hyrmine

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:56 PM

rbgs are so much easier to access. no matter what you say, noobs want to feel like they are good, and guess what. that's exactly what rbgs do for them. shit players are never going to hit high rating in arena so they give up on pvp. rbgs on the other hand are so much easier to gain rating in so players get 1800 rating and already think they are pro and better than all those people who have 1500 rbg rating. it's this simple. so i doubt you will see people starting to q again.

#37 Eowynnz

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:57 PM

View Postinsanepimpmobile, on 14 February 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

I have an interesting idea, what if they brought back the Arena Master title and just made the requirements for the title 2400 rating in each bracket. Each season the title would go away and reset. So during the season we had some thing to work for instead of just a glad title at the end of the season. If arena participation was too low maybe lower the requirements alittle bit. I would personally feel more compelled to que more arena in each bracket.

I actually feel like that's a pretty great idea. Would give some incentive to more seasoned players to play all brackets actively, instead of the "get gear, wait for season end then push" mentality that many (myself included) has adopted.
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#38 Hyrmine

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:00 PM

bring back flawless victor

#39 Canadianpimp_613638

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

This is actually a really good fucking post, great ideas - definitely post it on the official forums. Although I'd like to see some of these ideas with 5.2, they're actually paying more attention to PvP systems and listening to good feedback, so I'm hopeful for 5.3 that more improvements can be made.

The biggest issue with arena is that nobody plays it. The culprit is the daunting barrier to entry, gear and skill, which ultimately leads to low participation which is fun for nobody. It's not the hardest game to get good at, but does have a high learning curve at the beginning because, as we all know, knowledge of other class abilities is a huge part of being able to react correctly. It's much easier to learn to play a competitive game like an FPS because the concept is simple, yet is the skill ceiling is much harder to reach. Don't misinterpret that as "make PvP more noob-friendly," but follow your suggestions: reduce the barrier entry through easier gearing and better PvP systems (tournaments, unranked play, a proper ELO system). Although this is an MMO, the majority of PvE content is done without an organized group (leveling, LFR, dailies). The majority of PvP is done through random BGs. Yes, you're put in an LFR or a BG with other players, but your interactions is mostly a solo means.

I have to get back to work, but the main point was create systems that encourage players to arena (unranked play, cosmetic rewards, simple to understand rating sytems) -> increase particpation. Higher participation = more variety/fun.

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:11 AM

View PostHyrmine, on 14 February 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

rbgs are so much easier to access. no matter what you say, noobs want to feel like they are good, and guess what. that's exactly what rbgs do for them. shit players are never going to hit high rating in arena so they give up on pvp. rbgs on the other hand are so much easier to gain rating in so players get 1800 rating and already think they are pro and better than all those people who have 1500 rbg rating. it's this simple. so i doubt you will see people starting to q again.

Its the same reason why so many bad players thought/think vanilla was the pinnacle of wow pvp, they didn't know they were bad because there was no rating to show it. With RBG's individuals can be terrible and still achieve high ratings, it blows my mind how bad some of the 2300-2400+ rbg people really are. But no one wants to do something they suck at, I hate starcraft because I am terrible at it so I don't play it. If I was terrible at arena and had a rating that unequivocally said I was terrible I wouldn't do it.

Arena should be easier for people to progress in so people feel like they're better than they are, the rating inflation thing might actually provide that, but it needs to be done in combinations with a lot of other things.

Quote

This is actually a really good fucking post, great ideas - definitely post it on the official forums. Although I'd like to see some of these ideas with 5.2, they're actually paying more attention to PvP systems and listening to good feedback, so I'm hopeful for 5.3 that more improvements can be made.

But here we are again, like a woman who gets beat by her boyfriend/husband, he said he was sorry and things will be different, he won't hurt you again, so you go back to him and wait until patch 5.2 thinking it will be different. Than he beats the shit out of you again. You're done with him this time, you're going to your mothers, but than he proposes to you, HE SWEARS HE WILL NEVER HURT YOU AGAIN. "I LOVE YOU BABY!" So you go back to him until the next expansion, where HE PROMISED THINGS WILL BE DIFFERENT! and than he beats the shit out of you again and so on and so on

5.2 will be better...

Edited by Radejjj, 15 February 2013 - 12:19 AM.





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