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Balance is not the biggest problem, systems are

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#41 Salutations

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:19 AM


Edited by ezeaz, 15 February 2013 - 12:20 AM.

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#42 ardnut

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:29 AM

Some great ideas there. I hope blizzard are reading this as they say they do read AJ.
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#43 Jinngo

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 08:38 AM

Merge all bgs, kthxbye
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#44 proffset

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:53 AM

Actually saw your post before and it was too long to read, read it now and I'm glad cus it was well written and took up very good points/ideas! Hope more will take a look at it, have you posted it at wowforums? Feel like this should be getting some attention maybe we can have some sweet ass seasons infront of us then. VERY annoyed with the current amount of queues in whatever I do in this game.
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#45 Snuggli

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:34 PM

Good post, but having an unranked 3v3 queueing system will probably reduce arena participation.

I don't know about you guys but if I could just queue unranked 3v3 all day I would. Queueing ladder would be a PITA if everyone was on unranked and queues were 10 minutes instead of 3.

Definitely need to fix cross-realm queues though. Nothing worse than sitting in queue for 7 minutes and getting a 1500 team when you're queueing at 2300+ and either getting 0-1pts or losing 50 'cause someone got gibbed by swifty macros.
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Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#46 Ayato

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 12:51 PM

Merge all bgs, kthxbye


Merging every bg and implementing the queue system of arena-tournament (instapop if people within 100 of your mmr are in que, the search will widen by 100 mmr every 30seconds), would make arenas more active again for sure.

Most bg:s are dead anyway and serve no purpose other than r1 transfers, they might aswell be merged. This would probably also make 5v5 have gladiator spots again.

Unsure how this would be done though, when the servers are in different locations. But for sure the game would get much better if they were able to merge all bgs into one.

Edited by Ayato, 21 February 2013 - 12:55 PM.

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#47 Saikx

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Unranked mode.

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Ranked participation is already too low, giving people the option to play unranked will make it even worse.

Edited by Saikx, 21 February 2013 - 02:07 PM.

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#48 Lieto

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 03:34 PM

Playing 2s as healer+dps vs healer+dps was by far the most frustrating experience i ever had in the game.
Not to mention loosing 3s because enemy team had human rogue and you got saped 60% of the games.
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#49 a1entity

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:08 PM

0.5 % of glads with current participation isn't enough either.
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#50 Ragingsteer

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:17 PM

I think a lot of people would argue that even an incredibly unbalanced 2s bracket that was actually relevant (i.e., it gave out its own set of titles, achievements, and rewards) would be better for the game than the irrelevant piece of trash it is now.

RIght now it's just a way for people to sit on their 3s and still get points, and for people to play a few shitty games and collect their welfare 1800 points. It's not good for any aspect of the game whatsoever.

I was thinking about making a post on the WoW forums about that but you beat me to it. I would suggest the following:

1. Lower the default point cap in 2s from 1800 to 1000. There's very little incentive for casual players to try to level their 2s and gain skill when they get 1800 points no matter how terrible they are


2. Give the 2s bracket it's own system of rewards. I think having two land mounts would garner a lot of interest in 2s again. One could be for mid level rating; something that the average player could actually hope to work towards, and then a much higher rated (and more badass looking) one for the upper echelon of players. 2s could also have it's own title equivalent to Gladiator, something like "Victor". I'm sure someone could come up with a great title. "Victor Thaya". Has a nice ring to it, and everyone would know it came from 2s so depending on what class you were, it could either been seen as a mild accomplishment, or something impressive.

For all the reasons the OP listed, I think 2s is really the key to revamping pvp again. Will it be balanced? No, but at this point there are much bigger problems. Mainly, that no one gives a shit about pvp anymore. They need to bring the fun back, even if it isn't balanced.

Edited by Ragingsteer, 21 February 2013 - 04:22 PM.

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#51 Thaya

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

Yeah, 2v2 indeed covered almost every problem I mentioned, especially the problem that new players have in learning the game.

I've refined the opener post a little bit, I'm starting to really love the idea of per-season dynamic rewards instead of end-of-season rewards. Probably the biggest change in the post is this (2nd paragraph):

There's so many great ideas out there. It doesn't even have to be unranked mode - that's just my take on it and an idea I haven't seen discussed before. Think about weekly challenges/tournaments with rewards - regular 100k gold tournaments would be intense. Introduce observing, at least in ghost mode like on a certain private server, but preferably more like the 5.2 Brawl (can keep it tournament-only). Introduce a best-of-3 mode for it, and allow it to be used in wargames.

Think about getting rid of end of season rewards completely. End of season rewards only promote cheating and boosting by now, and their value as an achievement of skill diminished to the point they're almost irrelevant. You could replace them with the aforementioned tournaments, or do other things like temporary per-season achievements that turn into FoS (f.ex. a new Arena Master per season, Flawless Victor, 2.2/2.4/2.7 per season). You know how fun it is for new players to get a RBG achievement every 100 rating they advance? Imagine if Arena had something similar, and you got Gladiator at say 2.5k, Duelist at 2.2, etc. And the seasons are really short so it doesn't get stale - you don't NEED TO introduce a new title and set of gear every single season.

Another change is that I'm highlighting the real problem more. The real problem is, guys, that the way it works right now just sucks for new players. Look at it in the long run. Arena needs something that constantly attracts new players to it, because at this point the arena player base is so small it's becoming unplayable, and you can't return old players to it, but you can attract new.

New players need an easier way to learn the game, and unranked or 2v2 are necessary. Increasing rewards will only give a short lived sparkle of interest, doesn't matter if the whole system is changed or they increase Gladiator cutoff %. As long as players feel like they suck and the game is not giving them a friendly environment to learn - and learning this game from scratch does take a lot of time - you will never get new enthusiastic players. And that's what this is about.
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#52 Snuggli

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:47 PM

Problem with increasing title %s is that nobody will ever treat them the same.

It's like giving a 1st place winners medal to everyone, you've got the medal (title) but it doesn't mean as much as the medals of previous races.

Unless they added more titles and bumped challenger, rival and duelist down to 50%, 35% and 20%, and added new titles at 10% and 5%... there would have to be more mount rewards too (that's a lot of peoples motivation).

I don't think Gladiator should change though.

Edited by Snuggli, 21 February 2013 - 04:47 PM.

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Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#53 Fizion

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:10 PM

Don't shoot me for pointing it out, but why would blizz remove RBGs or give less gear/rewards when the participation is higher and it's easier (less effort, less time, less money) for them to balance? They have been moving away from elitism since Activision bought them.
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#54 Celaurthor

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:33 PM

What confuses me is why they made 2s 3s and 5s all give the same point caps in Cata then introduce rbgs and give them such an advantageously high cap wall. It almost looks like they wanted people to stop queueing arena and look at rbgs.
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#55 zergal

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:07 PM

I agree with this.

Arenas have been slowly losing popularity with the "tweener" players who hoover 1500-2.2k mmr. I personally do not believe that arenas will regain popularity unless RBGs are removed from the game. It's just a much easier alternative to getting gear, titles, achievements.

Ever tought it also had something to do with the fact the higher end players don't even act like they consider those "tweener" players like human beings based on a video game ranking?

Edit : Some posts illustrate my point perfectly, just going to link this gem.

rbg is there for shit people to be able to pvp

Edited by zergal, 21 February 2013 - 10:10 PM.

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#56 andysc

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:17 PM

And it's still a very temporary solution, it'll sparkle

learn to write or dont write pls thx
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#57 Bigmoran

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 09:36 PM

I've always thought there should be some weekly gold reward for ALL players who win 10 games of arena per week.

It could be some sort of weekly quest, could give XXXX honor points and XXXX gold.
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#58 Superkåre

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:24 PM

balance is way too bursty needs to get fixed imo
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#59 wodeta


Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:13 AM

Great post man, would read again.
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#60 qlimax

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:50 AM

People commenting saying TLDR and stupid shit like that, you are the reason this community is so dead. That was an amazing post I actually enjoyed reading it. If these ideas where taken up than the PvP side of the game IMHO would no doubt pick up. Kudos sir for spending the time to write and come up with that.
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