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PvP in 5.2 with official forums thread


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#1 Braindance

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

I made a thread on the official forums regarding pvp balance in 5.2. If you have some time, read its entirety and tell me what you think. The best would be if you commented bellow the official thread itself with your own suggestions and arguments to promote constructive theorycrafting and to bring some more attention to the issues of 5.2.

Thread can be found here:

http://us.battle.net...ic/7894109626#1

It would be great if any multi rank 1 and any of the more "famous players" adds some more ideas in the thread itself.

Cheers!

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#2 Braindance

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:28 PM

Bump - if nothing changes on the PTR this patch won't be as good as many of you might think

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#3 Athená

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:47 PM

I agree with everything but I can't post on US. Hope the thread gets looked at by a gm that doesn't post something completely retarded and out of context.
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

#4 Braindance

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:49 PM

View PostAthená, on 11 February 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

I agree with everything but I can't post on US. Hope the thread gets looked at by a gm that doesn't post something completely retarded and out of context.
Please c/p on the EU - my EU account is inactive and I can't post

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#5 Athená

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:04 AM

http://eu.battle.net...ic/6618911826#1

There ya go, good night.

Edited by Athená, 12 February 2013 - 12:04 AM.

I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

#6 Braindance

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:30 AM

still not enough

Edited by Braindance, 12 February 2013 - 12:39 AM.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#7 amirdaheat

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:34 AM

Good post, unfortunately these changes (in blizzard's eyes) are huge changes and won't be happening anytime soon. One can only hope, like we have done for the past 3 expacs
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#8 Djandawg

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:42 AM

I'd like to see every melee lose a stun.Removal of additional interrupts: fae silence, disruptive shout etc. People need a casting window, especially when trained by 2 melees.

Reducing hunter cc, so that the healer isn't %30 inactive in arena by instants.
NS removed from non healing specs and put to 3 mins cd. Pom not interacting with cc spells except for arcane.

Holy paladins losing repentance. Doesn't make sense to give a the most defensive healer triple non dr-ing cc.

Resto shaman healing reduction, removal of tremor from totemic restoration. Holy paladin instant healing nerf.

Shadowpriest losing life swap and/or moving health percentage for disc priest to %35 so that they aren't in execute range(especially after phantasm nerf)
Also I'd like to see targeting of pets/totems with macro etc removed.

Rogues losing paralytic poison(as mentioned in the post)

The problem with the post in general is, you request change of dynamics, like whole resil system etc, where in reality some classes have already %14 crit with full crit reforge and no abilities/cooldowns to increase crit chance. So if you give say %20 crit reduction, mages will crit say %60 of the time but a lock will do like %0. There's a better way to address this, which is nerfing broken burst modifier spells and so on.
I appreciate the time and effort put in the post, good luck.

Edited by Djandawg, 12 February 2013 - 01:15 AM.


#9 Hackattack3

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:10 AM

View PostBraindance, on 11 February 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

I made a thread on the official forums regarding pvp balance in 5.2. If you have some time, read its entirety and tell me what you think. The best would be if you commented bellow the official thread itself with your own suggestions and arguments to promote constructive theorycrafting and to bring some more attention to the issues of 5.2.

Thread can be found here:

http://us.battle.net...ic/7894109626#1

It would be great if any multi rank 1 and any of the more "famous players" adds some more ideas in the thread itself.

Cheers!

Great post and thank you for getting a constructive discussion going regarding balance and PvP changes.

While I have not played PTR 5.2 I would like to add what I can where I can without overextending.

1.  I agree with Djanqt's assessment of scaling back %crit chance.  This is something blizzard tried early on in seasons 1-3ish, not sure when they reverted it exactly.  The way it played out was it made non-crit reliant dots classes (sl/sl locks, spriests) extremely OP and crit reliant classes like hunters suffered.  Very tricky to balance since certain classes/specs depend on crits more than others.

2.  Absolutely agree with your point here.  Although some healers are stronger than others, I feel it is the most balanced expansion in terms of healers at the moment (cata - couldn't play rdruid and rsham OP rivaled s3/s4 rdruid, wotlk - prothealin & rdruids late, tbc - rdruid or gtfo)

3.  Instant CC makes the game less fun for everyone involved.  Especially as a healer vs certain comps I feel like I'm not controlling my character for 30-40% of the game.  I don't remember a single season where it was less fun to play a healer.  KFC stuns, god comp, mage/lock and I'm basically eating instants for most of the game.

4.  Good point, would bring back fake casting, which has lost it's importance of the last few seasons.

5.  I believe spriest utility is fine and slight buffs or added utility are needed for other hybrids.  Warriors and mages are still generally stronger and more represented that spriests.  They are already looking at giving rets some added dispells last I read.  You can control spriest utility and MD by training or primarily focusing the spriest.  I don't see anything wrong with spriest/ret/rsham becoming a viable comp.  There needs to be a fine line though, bring hybrids up to par without making 3xdps with hybrids viable again.

6-7. Taking your word for it, haven't seen 5.2


CD on stances needs to be removed with recent stance changes.
I agree with making sword and board more meaningful.  Easy fix would be throwing heavy resil on the shield?  

Nice Post.

#10 Minpojke

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:15 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 12 February 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

I'd like to see every melee lose a stun.Removal of additional interrupts: fae silence, disruptive shout etc. People need a casting window, especially when trained by 2 melees.

Reducing hunter cc, so that the healer isn't %30 inactive in arena by instants.
NS removed from non healing specs and put to 3 mins cd. Pom not interacting with cc spells except for arcane.

Holy paladins losing repentance. Doesn't make sense to give a the most defensive healer triple non dr-ing cc.

Resto shaman healing reduction, removal of tremor from totemic restoration. Holy paladin instant healing nerf.

Shadowpriest losing life swap and/or moving health percentage for disc priest to %35 so that they aren't in execute range(especially after phantasm nerf)
Also I'd like to see targeting of pets/totems etc removed.

Rogues losing paralytic poison(as mentioned in the post)

The problem with the post in general is, you request change of dynamics, like whole resil system etc, where in reality some classes have already %14 crit with full crit reforge and no abilities/cooldowns to increase crit chance. So if you give say %20 crit reduction, mages will crit say %60 of the time but a lock will do like %0. There's a better way to address this, which is nerfing broken burst modifier spells and so on.
I appreciate the time and effort put in the post, good luck.
å

They are removing fae silence kinda, growl no longer activates bear form so it would take 2 globals to get it up which none will probably spend their globals on
www.twitch.tv/Minpojke

#11 Braindance

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:41 AM

Man wtf is this need more feedback - seems the "vendetta" players are too busy counting the nickels they leech from viewers and have no time to share their opinion on how to make the game better for everyone

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#12 Braindance

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:37 AM

Give some feedback make the game better

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#13 AcerMVP

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

I already gave my feedback in a thread of my own and just bumped yours.

#14 Braindance

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

Ty all for your help - Hildegard was also kind enough to put it on facebook - http://www.facebook....unkies?fref=ts. Leave your ideas and comments!

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#15 Regent

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:13 PM

Bumped the US thread, people covered most of my points already.

#16 Pinka

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:40 AM

Can't post on us forums. But i can agree with some things. Others are quite unneeded. Like the crit reduction (stuff that could be fixed with a slight resi buff)

And the part of stuns and horror effects. CC wich enables classes to pop cds without letting it break from damage. It makes a lot unable to act and just twiddle their fingers to see themselves drop to a certain death if trinket is down.
Warbringer into shockwave this patch is the highest contender on warrior burst. And next patch cheapshot, kidney, paralytic poision will be the new warbringer shockwave. This also counts for deep freeze combined with sp disarm or deathcoil in that matter.

While a single stun isn't a huge deal. The part were it becomes difficult is the chaining from it. Never before Wow had so much stuns in the game. Stuns are a nice mechanic to either peel or keep someone in place wile you damage them. But not something which enables a class to go from 100 to 0% health cause your team can chain stun 3 stuns in a single target.

So either. Fix this to reduce stun DR so it double dips. Ea Full stun into 25% into immune. Or make stun/ horror durations 75% in pvp.
With stuns reduced it enables players to respond to the (high) burst cooldowns used against them. And let them properly use their defensive cds or reposition themselves.


Edited by Pinka, 13 February 2013 - 04:45 AM.

Posted Image

#17 Braindance

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:49 AM

View PostPinka, on 13 February 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Can't post on us forums. But i can agree with some things. Others are quite unneeded. Like the crit reduction (stuff that could be fixed with a slight resi buff)

And the part of stuns and horror effects. CC wich enables classes to pop cds without letting it break from damage. It makes a lot unable to act and just twiddle their fingers to see themselves drop to a certain death if trinket is down.
Warbringer into shockwave this patch is the highest contender on warrior burst. And next patch cheapshot, kidney, paralytic poision will be the new warbringer shockwave. This also counts for deep freeze combined with sp disarm or deathcoil in that matter.

While a single stun isn't a huge deal. The part were it becomes difficult is the chaining from it. Never before Wow had so much stuns in the game. Stuns are a nice mechanic to either peel or keep someone in place wile you damage them. But not something which enables a class to go from 100 to 0% health cause your team can chain stun 3 stuns in a single target.

So either. Fix this to reduce stun DR so it double dips. Ea Full stun into 25% into immune. Or make stun/ horror durations 75% in pvp.
With stuns reduced it enables players to respond to the (high) burst cooldowns used against them. And let them properly use their defensive cds or reposition themselves.
While you are right I still think burst overall needs to be toned down by about 15% while  sustained damage could go up by 10%. The stuns are a huge problem in general cause they leave you with no room to react.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#18 Regent

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:05 AM

View PostBraindance, on 13 February 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

While you are right I still think burst overall needs to be toned down by about 15% while  sustained damage could go up by 10%. The stuns are a huge problem in general cause they leave you with no room to react.

I think that burst still has its place, the game would get quite stale if every single spec was just wear them down over 10 minutes. The game still has to have those fast kills or no one would ever play it since it would be so dreadfully boring.

#19 Bigmoran

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:59 AM

Burst is fine as long as healing is bursty aswell

which is why druids are dog vs cleave right now - cant counter burst damage with burst heals like a shaman, paladin, or even priest can

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#20 Conradical

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

http://us.battle.net...09626?page=3#54

maybe i'm biased...but do you see what i see?!!!!




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