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5.2 ROGUES NEEDS TO BE FIXED


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#101 WildeHilde

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:56 AM

View PostZerlog, on 10 February 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

it could be easly countered but well had no idea it was coming and the bomb stoped both my grip disarm and stun that comes with it, cant spyfiend into smoke bomb, yeah problem is not that the swap was horrible, it was that the paladin, not even me or the mage thought something like this could happen from a rogue, not to blame anyone or defend us, but its so easy to look at the vid and then say x and y, like im sure most ppl here never seen a rogue do that fast damage and end at 100% energy :P and that the dk were connecting at the end where he died, just shows that even if he boubled(should have on full hp tbh) he would be mass dispeled and prbly in trouble.

and all im thinking is, what if it was a really really good Thug or RMP with that rogue burst combined with the hunter and mage + mass dispel.  does not look to hard to setup and pretty easy tho


yeah we got outplayed, under estimated our opponents, happens nothing else but to learn and go on, even the best has their bad days, thats how they learn

It's pretty much a star align situation. The spec is not useable in competitive play but can surprise players that don't expect it. Used to play combat early this season and in 1v1 situations or rogue duels I could best players far better than me and classes rogues usually do not beat. Combat is like that already. None of the abilities shown in the video got buffed, expect for combat getting 5% more attack power. The very same situation could happen on live but you don't see rogues dominating the ladders. It's like showing what damage a warlock chain casting chaos bolt does and then claiming that destro is overpowered.

Killing Spree can be amazing, but it rarely works against good players. If RNG is good you can follow mages through Blink or Warlocks teleporting out of LoS and it procs poisons fast, so often times you finish with a paralytic stun and a full energy bar. Still, pet classes hard-counter it, damage outside of Blades/Spree on anything with armor is bad, really bad. The spec has two things: 1.) 8 second Kidney Shot and 2.) Killing Spree. Outside of that it is really weak. Also anyone following the Bandit's Guile stack can see when the burst is coming.

Edit: Not saying rogues are balanced in 5.2, I did not test it, yet. So I cannot comment. But if rogues are overpowered chances are high it won't be those playing combat outside of 1v1 situations vs. non-pet classes. Simply because combat only got 5% more AP. It's not overpowered, Cloak and Dagger is pretty bad for Combat for example.

#102 Gankeyjake

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:11 AM

You can do this on live by the way, have been for awhile. Not many rogues know the combat play style or have the right combat macros because energy becomes more precious and damage from rogues not spam happy. Yes, most rogues complain and aren't very skilled because they don't pool energy. A skilled rogue using energy correctly can almost always 1v2 most classes with equal gear. If you spam for damage then I bet you did well in cataclysm. To say a 1 min CD is all we get for burst damage is far from the truth. Combat has 3 spreadable damage abilities that can be added to macros or alternated. Like any class/spec it should be played until you are good at it, try not to give up so quick and abuse forum threads hoping for handouts. Other class forums are the coldest, most brutal places to post, but it also reminds us that there are people everywhere that would love to make us angry at any cost. Oh the merry times.

"The line it is drawn The curse it is cast
The slow one now Will later be fast
As the present now Will later be past
The order is Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'."

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#103 WildeHilde

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:21 AM

AdRush/Blades is solid but not really stronger than high mastery Sub Blades. You lose out Dance, you lose Premed and the increased damage from openers. You have low damage vs. plate classes outside of Blades. And the main ability of your spec is unreliable. If rogues turn out to be overpowered however and the arenas are filled with mediocre rogue teams dominating the ladders than combat might work. Combat mostly is a hard-counter to other rogues.

No decent team let's you untouched if you pop Adrush/Blades (which is far better than using Blades/Spree by the way).But you have such a long ramp up time for Bandit's Guile and you have to make the 3 stack / 8 second non-dr Kidney combo work. Outside of these CDs combat has the worst damage per energy, it's not competitive on single targets. Blade Flurry gets nerved for PvP in 5.2. But it's a good spec to produce stupid high bursts video. Did one myself.

#104

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:37 AM

0.o +rep hilde!

#105

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:46 AM

View PostDakkrothy, on 10 February 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

blizzard defo going in the wrong direction with rogues... I've played a BUNCH of games on PTR and rogue vs rogue is literally whoever gets the other rogue in a stun without trinket first WINS.


rogue dmg is more than fine on live, it's only their survival that has to be tweaked... make shieldwall thingy useable in stuns or w/e dont care. It's actually annoying as fuck when blizzard do so many rights just to fuck everything up with one class becoming godmode



just wanna point out that I could not give 2 shits bout killing spree. However, I duelled a couple of sub rogues on PTR and they can kill me before I can use one single global (without trinketing) & earth shield up.

the numbers were something like 98k eviscerate 68k ambush 97k eviscerate 70k ambush + random white hits & poison dmg in between -> dead


I had 68% resilience. It happened more than 1 duel


yeah i noticed this aswell, been hit for couple 120k evi but nothing thats not normal :)

and well i dont really care about the Ks mechanic, just caught us totaly off guard, nevertheless rogues are indeed doing some extreme damage, will be fun to see how they playout in next season

#106 WildeHilde

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:56 AM

Well Dakkroth described a crit chain. That can happen, but it's unlikely to happen with 25% crit to crit four times in a row. The chances of that happening are about 6-7%. Shamans are probably in the worst spot vs. rogues but to be honest. This class has been overpowered for a very long time and if we get a season without druid or shaman being the dominant healer I am happy about it.

#107 Braindance

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:12 AM

There are more disturbing things on the ptr than rogues - fire mages and boomins. At least, if you get a stun on a rogue he is 100% dead

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#108 Zong

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:19 AM

View PostBraindance, on 10 February 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

There are more disturbing things on the ptr than rogues - fire mages and boomins. At least, if you get a stun on a rogue he is 100% dead

Ele shamans are scary as shit too.

Frankly burst damage is just fucking out of control across the board in 5.2. It's going to be worse than 5.0.

edit: also the "numbers" from Rogue burst on 5.2 make me laugh. Warriors do that kind of damage to me now, and it only getting worse in 5.2.

so to reiterate: Every class does way too much burst way too easily usually with little to no set-up or skill required.

Edited by Zong, 10 February 2013 - 04:25 AM.

Posted ImagePosted Image

#109 Braindance

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:24 AM

View PostZong, on 10 February 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

Ele shamans are scary as shit too.

Frankly burst damage is just fucking out of control across the board in 5.2. It's going to be worse than 5.0.
Ele is ok - at least ele has to cast.

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#110 inhume

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:34 AM

single target killing spree glyph and armor pen, combat would be a great spec to play =(.

#111 Evolute

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:29 AM

wtb cheap shot on the ptr actually working : X

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#112 Macleodlol

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:30 AM

DJfrostbomb... taking my remember?

#113 Jaronlol

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:07 AM

View PostEvolute, on 10 February 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

wtb cheap shot on the ptr actually working : X
Its so annoying running up a target and saying "all right im going to cheap shot this guy" and nothing happens and hes just running around with the find weakness debuff and not cheap shotted, nor on the stun DR. Most disappointing feeling ever.

Edited by Jaronlol, 10 February 2013 - 06:08 AM.


#114 Styfez

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:24 AM

View PostEvolute, on 10 February 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

wtb cheap shot on the ptr actually working : X

It's not just Cheap.. People were ice skating in my webs too..

#115 phishy

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:55 AM

so...rogues can now do what warriors have been doing all season? going to be hilarious, but hasn't the game been pretty hilarious since s10 anyway?

#116 Maajty

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

View Postphishy, on 10 February 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

so...rogues can now do what warriors have been doing all season? going to be hilarious, but hasn't the game been pretty hilarious since s10 anyway?
+1

#117 Scratchyo

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostEvolute, on 10 February 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

wtb cheap shot on the ptr actually working : X

its not only cheapshot, its every first attack u do on a target that u havent touched for about 10sec.

as disc on PTR i have to dispel/dot the guy before i can fear/MC him
if u just do nothing and wanna fear, it will not work... so retarded

#118 AcerMVP

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:36 PM

I've been noticed this and even posted it on the rogue forums + PTR:

http://us.battle.net...opic/7810522249

Is my direct like to thread and I ranted a bit, but I was tired of seeing blizzard hack away our class.

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:47 PM

warriors 1shot ppl, is unbalanced
mages deep kill ppl, is unbalanced
moonkins solar beam vortex you, is unbalanced
affli got aoe damage and blood fear, is unbalanced
Hunters got stampede, unbalanced
Rogues got warrior pre nerf damage, is clearly a l2p issue and intended and not over the top at all

and ppl who dont expect to get soloed in matters of seconds are noobs

this thread :P shouldnt have made it XD but its fun reading :) atleast

#120 Contrololold

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:31 PM

Posted Image Rogue (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Why did you give 50 energy for rogues in tier bonus ? IMO it means OP for sub, 5+ amb. Do you think energy is a big problem ?
We were trying to give them more burst for PvP (ironically they needed it) but considering +30 instead. (Source)
twitch.tv/xrags  -- streaming boomkin PoV:  dk/boom/rsham, mage/boom/rsham, rogue/boom/rsham, etc.

Sometimes resto / Mistweaver




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