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#1 Nereos

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 09:48 PM

I haven't tried warrior at PTR but it's quite easy as a warrior to tell that with the current 5.2 changes, the class won't really be that fun to play due to rage starvation in def stance with the overpower rage cost. Of course def stance is stupid on live, but with the current 5.2 changes, every single team will just train the warrior 100% of the game because we really won't do any damage in def stance, and we are way too squishy in battle/berserker stance. However, I recently came up with a pretty decent idea of how to make us stance dance more and in my mind, it would make warriors quite fun to play, and probably not too overpowered nor shit.. Here's the idea:

Battle stance: keep it as it is on live (generating 12 rage per auto attack, 0% damage reduction). Used when we are not the trained targed

Defensive stance: 15-20% damage reduction, 1 rage every 3 sec. Used when we are trained hard, resulting in good damage reduction but shitty damage

Berserker stance: should work the way it does on live (generating 6 rage per auto attack and 1 rage per % health loss) but added a 5-10% damage reduction. Used when we are trained but not too hard - resulting in decent rage generation when we are being trained so we can still do decent damage but we won't be as squishy as in battle stance

To me, this actually seems like a pretty natural way of fixing the stances. Is one of your partners being trained? Go battle stance for good rage generation and more damage. Are you being trained hard and need to go defensive? Go defensive stance to take less damage, but you won't really do that much damage. Are you being trained but you feel like you don't need all the damage reduction from defensive stance and still want to keep pressure up? Go berserker stance so you take abit less damage but can still do good damage

It kinda makes sense when you think of it.. You are basically forced to stance dance with this system - you adapt your stance to what happens.
The current 5.2 idea is to either go battle stance and do damage at the cost of taking shitload of damage - or go def stance and do no damage with damage reduction. There is nothing inbetween and it's not a good way to fix warriors.. It just makes it really clear for every team to train the warrior 100% of the game since he would do no damage.

If any of you agree with these ideas and would like to contribute in some way (no idea if it would help), you could either tweet Ghostcrawler about this or copy + paste this post on official forums that this is probably the best idea for fixing stances without any severe changes.

#2 flannelsoff

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

would be cool to bind berserker stance again after 30 years

#3 Slumdogx

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:32 PM

it makes sense? being trained means being in defensive stance all game = 0 dmg output = lose?!

tell me im wrong?
  • Glyph of Gag Order and Glyph of Rude Interruption combined into one Major Glyph. If you remove Gag Order silence on just pummel, then the Glyph only provides a silence on Heroic Throw, which makes it an unattractive Glyph overall. Rude Interruption by itself is also unattractive, so combining these two and removing the silence on pummel (overpowered) but allowing the Warrior to gain 6% increased damage for 15s when successfully landing a pummel (cool/skill). It would allow you to keep the blanket silence on Heroic Throw only (balanced with 30s cool down), and keep it interesting and fun.
Or you could just remove it completely because it's easy. - HR

#4 Coldizzle

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:19 AM

you want infinite rage against dot teams?

#5 Covlol

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:38 AM

thats a good idea

Edit-
I made a post on the wow forums here if anyone wants to chime in their opinions. http://us.battle.net...ic/7864756405#1

I personally think this is a great idea and would really help warrior with out giving them all the tools to completely ignore whats going on (like now).

Edited by Covlol, 08 February 2013 - 12:43 AM.

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#6 Execx

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:46 AM

View PostSlumdogx, on 07 February 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

it makes sense? being trained means being in defensive stance all game = 0 dmg output = lose?!

tell me im wrong?

Warrior acting like they can't do damage in Dstance, what a joke. Try being trained by KFC then come talk to me about doing damage while getting trained. There should be a trade off, take less damage and do less damage, take more damage and deal more.

#7 Silhin

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:56 AM

View PostExecx, on 08 February 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Warrior acting like they can't do damage in Dstance, what a joke. Try being trained by KFC then come talk to me about doing damage while getting trained. There should be a trade off, take less damage and do less damage, take more damage and deal more.

Thats Skillz Bro Your just a newb L2P Kfc Top skill comp They don't Train People they have to Set it up man it has alot of ramp up time to get a kill as KFC

#8 Silhin

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:08 AM

In all fairness to this Post No I don't think it be a good Design In the Current Game's Warrior as a whole Doesn't Play Defensive enough the only time I ever see a Warrior play defensive is when there sitting under 30% Most of the time your'e tunneling something to the ground not worrying about postion/hp/ even using Cd on cd like shockwave Cuz u don't need em to peel for your'e self

Take rogue for Example Rogue can be at 100% all game but always spamming faint never really in the other team face Cuz they can get gibbed pretty ez by any class with a stun Rogue use Kidney and dance Damage Cooldown to peel people off instead of doing damage just so they can live

Now am i saying this is a good design NO but in the current game Complete Opposite for Warrior they Spam everything with out any concern for there well being

All in all These would be buff to warrior's and i don't think that the route most people playing this game would want to see

We want to see a good of state warrior not a OP one

#9 Covlol

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 01:14 AM

View PostExecx, on 08 February 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:



Warrior acting like they can't do damage in Dstance, what a joke. Try being trained by KFC then come talk to me about doing damage while getting trained. There should be a trade off, take less damage and do less damage, take more damage and deal more.

Mage acting like he knows the class he is complaining about...

There is a diff between taking lower dmg and doing lower dmg and taking lower dmg and doing no dmg.

Right now warr can take lower dmg and do insane dmg which is wrong, but in ptr warr does nothing when going d. While this is not a bad thing either, the fact is in battle we will be too glass cannon like.

This fixes all of that with out lettin us run rampant in d stance, any non biased retard should be going with this so that warr can be in a balanced state as far as doing dmg vs taking dmg is concerned.
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#10 Execx

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:28 AM

You should be a glass cannon if you're doing infinity damage. Play more conservative and not mongoloid in lining your healer like 100% of warriors do atm. Basically play like everyone else has to.

You're saying you can do no damage... your ms doesn't require rage, colossus smash doesn't require rage, ONE charge will allow you to do 2 overpowers or 1 slam. You act like it's impossible to stance dance (have you forgotten you used to do that? ) or do damage, or that you sit in stuns for like 6 minutes not playing your character.

I play hunter/warrior/mage/lock/spriest thanks for assuming I don't know what i'm talking about though.

#11 Icekingx

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:44 AM

Stance Dance Revolution.

Rawrbertlol, on 14 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Best signatures on entire website.
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#12 Braindance

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:48 AM

View PostExecx, on 08 February 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

You should be a glass cannon if you're doing infinity damage. Play more conservative and not mongoloid in lining your healer like 100% of warriors do atm. Basically play like everyone else has to.

You're saying you can do no damage... your ms doesn't require rage, colossus smash doesn't require rage, ONE charge will allow you to do 2 overpowers or 1 slam. You act like it's impossible to stance dance (have you forgotten you used to do that? ) or do damage, or that you sit in stuns for like 6 minutes not playing your character.

I play hunter/warrior/mage/lock/spriest thanks for assuming I don't know what i'm talking about though.
a)We are talking for 5.2 not live
b)One charge every 12 seconds=2 overpowers or 1 slam. Woah 2 globals every 12 seconds huuuuuge. Where is hamstring
c)Stance dancing now is clunky - there ain't no dancing when you have to stick to a stance for 3 seconds and one of them is almost useless in pvp
d)Since you play a mage - let's put that mongo into a different perspective. i would be completely sympathetic with what you said about kfc and whatnot if you played a caster, but you don't; mages don't cast. They have terrific damage while moving, supreme cc, and they can veev you every 30 seconds. A good mage right now can pull tremendous amounts of damage even while trained. A warrior in 5.2 will pull NO damage while trained - that is the point that everyone is trying to make but you seem to systematically ignore. There is a huge difference between doing low damage and doing no damage.
e)Finally, no we shouldn't be a glass cannon. Warriors traditionally only do damage and take damage. That is why we have no fancy cc (apart from OP shockwave and warbringer that are getting nerfed). We are designed as a mobile class that hits hard and takes hits, without fancy snowflakes, blinding smokes and fireballs.

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#13 djp771133

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:07 AM

View PostBraindance, on 08 February 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

a)We are talking for 5.2 not live
b)One charge every 12 seconds=2 overpowers or 1 slam. Woah 2 globals every 12 seconds huuuuuge. Where is hamstring
c)Stance dancing now is clunky - there ain't no dancing when you have to stick to a stance for 3 seconds and one of them is almost useless in pvp
d)Since you play a mage - let's put that mongo into a different perspective. i would be completely sympathetic with what you said about kfc and whatnot if you played a caster, but you don't; mages don't cast. They have terrific damage while moving, supreme cc, and they can veev you every 30 seconds. A good mage right now can pull tremendous amounts of damage even while trained. A warrior in 5.2 will pull NO damage while trained - that is the point that everyone is trying to make but you seem to systematically ignore. There is a huge difference between doing low damage and doing no damage.
e)Finally, no we shouldn't be a glass cannon. Warriors traditionally only do damage and take damage. That is why we have no fancy cc (apart from OP shockwave and warbringer that are getting nerfed). We are designed as a mobile class that hits hard and takes hits, without fancy snowflakes, blinding smokes and fireballs.

this man speaks the truth

#14 Covlol

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 04:15 AM

View PostExecx, on 08 February 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

You should be a glass cannon if you're doing infinity damage. Play more conservative and not mongoloid in lining your healer like 100% of warriors do atm. Basically play like everyone else has to.

You're saying you can do no damage... your ms doesn't require rage, colossus smash doesn't require rage, ONE charge will allow you to do 2 overpowers or 1 slam. You act like it's impossible to stance dance (have you forgotten you used to do that? ) or do damage, or that you sit in stuns for like 6 minutes not playing your character.

I play hunter/warrior/mage/lock/spriest thanks for assuming I don't know what i'm talking about though.

I don't have to assume anything, what u just said shows u don't know what ur tlkn about

Edited by Covlol, 08 February 2013 - 04:18 AM.

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#15 Execx

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:15 AM

View PostBraindance, on 08 February 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

a)We are talking for 5.2 not live
b)One charge every 12 seconds=2 overpowers or 1 slam. Woah 2 globals every 12 seconds huuuuuge. Where is hamstring
c)Stance dancing now is clunky - there ain't no dancing when you have to stick to a stance for 3 seconds and one of them is almost useless in pvp
d)Since you play a mage - let's put that mongo into a different perspective. i would be completely sympathetic with what you said about kfc and whatnot if you played a caster, but you don't; mages don't cast. They have terrific damage while moving, supreme cc, and they can veev you every 30 seconds. A good mage right now can pull tremendous amounts of damage even while trained. A warrior in 5.2 will pull NO damage while trained - that is the point that everyone is trying to make but you seem to systematically ignore. There is a huge difference between doing low damage and doing no damage.
e)Finally, no we shouldn't be a glass cannon. Warriors traditionally only do damage and take damage. That is why we have no fancy cc (apart from OP shockwave and warbringer that are getting nerfed). We are designed as a mobile class that hits hard and takes hits, without fancy snowflakes, blinding smokes and fireballs.

I'm also talking about 5.2

b )I was just referring to the fact that it's damage nonetheless
c ) I also agree it's clunky but that doesn't mean that you can't do it. Yeah zerk is useless, but as you said you can't really switch between to many stances. Having 2 effective stances makes the most sense in that model.. IE: swapping defensive/offensive
d ) I personally don't play NT, don't enjoy it. Dumbest playstyle in the world.
e ) Never said anything about how warriors should be glass cannon's. Only that if you do insane amount of damage you should take =/=. IE: PvE back in the day, more of it you had the more damage you take, in return though you did more aswell.

Edited by Execx, 08 February 2013 - 06:16 AM.


#16 Saikx

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:32 AM

remove this spastic mongoloid class for retards from the game, fixed


thanks

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#17

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:43 AM

View PostSaikx, on 08 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

remove this spastic mongoloid class for retards from the game, fixed


thanks


inb4 5.2 warriors using swifty macro when your healer dispel ua not on charge anymore

#18 Nereos

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:29 PM

View PostCovlol, on 08 February 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

thats a good idea

Edit-
I made a post on the wow forums here if anyone wants to chime in their opinions. http://us.battle.net...ic/7864756405#1

I personally think this is a great idea and would really help warrior with out giving them all the tools to completely ignore whats going on (like now).
Great that you took your time to do that, though I would believe posting in the PTR forums increases the chance of feedback :)

On topic, I would say these changes would be completely fair together with the overpower cost nerf.. On live you can stay in def stance all day without any penalty from it, since overpower costs 0 rage and that lets us build rage for other things. With these changes, you would be punished for staying in one stance for a long time.

What a lot of people seem to forget (or aren't aware of) is that the warrior rage/stance system differs very much from earlier expansions. The only things that cost rage now are heroic strike, slam, thunder clap, hamstring/piercing howl and sweeping strikes (+overpower in 5.2) BUT we don't gain rage the way we did before and we are very dependant on rage to do damage. If a team trains a warrior with the 5.2 changes, he will be forced to stay in def stance all game or he will die, but he won't gain any rage from hitting or being hit. This system is very clunky because the only way to get rage is by using mortal strike(gives 10 rage) to then use it for one overpower(costs 10 rage) and then we are back at 0 rage. Yeah, we can charge/battle shout but that would give us 2 overpowers every 12sec/1min - then back to mortal strike -> overpower -> 0 rage repeat.

Even with these changes warriors won't be as good as they are on live, since we won't have constant 25% damage reduction and good rage regen in def stance. I think a 20% dmg reduce on def stance would be fair with these changes since we won't be doing any damage due to overpower cost - so it will differ a lot from live. Berserker stance would be a stable all-around stance which would let us keep dealing alright damage with a lower damage reduce - prevents us from being as squishy as battle stance but not as tanky as in def stance. Battle stance would be a good damage stance but might be abit risky to stay in for too long considering a sudden stun would probably be the end of us without damage reduce.

Would really like to see some constructive feedback on this

#19 Braindance

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 05:18 PM

View PostSaikx, on 08 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

remove this spastic mongoloid class for retards from the game, fixed


thanks
Sai it's not like the warrior community is defending the current playstyle which is dumb and op, we are just making suggestions on how to change it - why you hating?

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#20 Thugjitsu

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 06:07 PM

View PostSaikx, on 08 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

remove this spastic mongoloid class for retards from the game, fixed


thanks

Hilarious how many mages show up crying on warrior threads every single time a new one is posted...
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