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Why should victims be immune to blame?


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#61 Zaephyr

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

so much hate

lets all band together

for the sUPERBOWLLLLLL
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#62 Thedream

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

90% of people marry their 7th - 12th grade love. Since you have read this, u will be told good news 2night. If you don't post this on nine comments your worst week starts now 4

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#63 Kelustu

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

View PostAwesoMegAmazing, on 02 February 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

It's never right to do something wrong, even if someone makes it easy for you to do it. I'm not going to give someone partial blame for leaving their car unlocked and someone stealing their iPod. It should never have happened in the first place. They did nothing wrong.

Blame isn't a zero-sum game. Just because the victim in some situations might have done something outrageously stupid and deserving of some of the responsibility for their actions does not absolve the aggressor of any blame.

View Poststcolbert, on 02 February 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Probably because he was using the word blame not stupidity, they are not interchangeable, kelustu you fucking tard.

You are reinventing a completely different argument, you're an idiot.

The good old point comma insult, die maggot.

Okay, but accepting blame and accepting responsibility are pretty closely interchangeable, are they not? And I don't think you can really argue that charging at four armed robbers without a weapon and getting shot would leave the victim absolved of responsibility for his own being shot. I just felt like that was the point he was trying to make, that's why I mentioned that you retards were getting hung up on the word blame and tried to explain it better.
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#64 Kawklee

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:55 AM

Reminder: I have all the windows open in my house and am wearing shorts and a t-shirt.

#65 stcolbert

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:01 AM

View PostKelustu, on 03 February 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

Blame isn't a zero-sum game. Just because the victim in some situations might have done something outrageously stupid and deserving of some of the responsibility for their actions does not absolve the aggressor of any blame.



Okay, but accepting blame and accepting responsibility are pretty closely interchangeable, are they not? And I don't think you can really argue that charging at four armed robbers without a weapon and getting shot would leave the victim absolved of responsibility for his own being shot. I just felt like that was the point he was trying to make, that's why I mentioned that you retards were getting hung up on the word blame and tried to explain it better.
Maybe the retarded OP should learn better english then. And I wouldn't consider them responsible either.  How the hell can you hold someone responsible for someone elses actions if you have not taken any actions against them.

Just because someone is a moron doesn't mean they automatically incur some sort of blame to any sort of violence done to them.

I'd fucking love that if it were true though.  Punch the TheDream right in his stupid face, sorry bro, you're a partially to blame.
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#66 Breadstick

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:02 AM

plz be nice
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#67 Thedream

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:25 AM

View Poststcolbert, on 04 February 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

Maybe the retarded OP should learn better english then. And I wouldn't consider them responsible either.  How the hell can you hold someone responsible for someone elses actions if you have not taken any actions against them.

Just because someone is a moron doesn't mean they automatically incur some sort of blame to any sort of violence done to them.

I'd fucking love that if it were true though.  Punch the TheDream right in his stupid face, sorry bro, you're a partially to blame.
you've got some issues mejt

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#68 Thedream

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:33 AM

if the person committing the crime can be responsible, and a bystander can be responsible, why can't the victim responsible for being in that situation?





also sorry for using the word blame rather than responsible, i had assumed people wouldn't take a giant shit when they read the word blame but i guess i was wrong

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#69 stcolbert

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:04 AM

View PostThedream, on 04 February 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

if the person committing the crime can be responsible, and a bystander can be responsible, why can't the victim responsible for being in that situation?





also sorry for using the word blame rather than responsible, i had assumed people wouldn't take a giant shit when they read the word blame but i guess i was wrong

Like many things, yes you were.  

Also like I mentioned I still wouldn't say they were responsible accountable or partially to blame in any of those circumstance, which I thought I made clear in my exchange with kelustu but inevitably you missed that.


A much more interesting and more controversial issue which you touched upon would be accomplice liability and whether non-action of bystanders should/could be defined as aiding and abetting.
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#70 Bloodriot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:01 PM

When I see naked women in the street the sexual desire courses through my veins and I enter into a heightened state of reality, my vision gets enhanced, blood red passion builds and I set the woman in my crosshairs, she is about to be raped and I cannot stop myself, the masculity I feel is overwhelming.


DAE think all women are whores?
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#71 terribleperson

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:18 PM

View PostThedream, on 02 February 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Ok, so me and some maggot were having a discussion about how in the real world, victims should not be absolved from blame in every circumstance.  (Sorta how in any type of car accident case, blame is most likely not 100% on a single person).  I made the point that a person subject to a bad event that occurs, should not be absolved of blame just because they are the victim, and this is without taking into account how the person was put into the situation.

Example one:  A woman strips off her clothing and lays down on her back in the middle of a dangerous alley in a dangerous part of town.  A random stranger comes over and rapes her as she lays there.  

Obviously the rapist is at blame for committing this crime, but do you believe that the victim should be absolved of all blame just because she is a victim?  (keep in mind this is not meant to be a formal court case or anything I'm just trying to ask a logic question).  



Example two:  A homosexual boy in a school is hiding his sexual orientation from other schoolmates because they are inherently homophobic and violent towards homosexuals.  The boy has several options, go through high school hiding his homosexuality and attempt to exist without people recognizing his sexual orientation; he could try to exist as an open homosexual in the school and subject himself to abuse and torment; or he could try to change the way the school/world is and attack the problem head on.  


Do you think that if the boy chose to exist as an open homosexual or to change the way things work, that he should be absolved of all blame for his suffering? (again, keep in mind that this is a logical question, not one based on morality.  Please don't respond with "he shouldn't have to hide his sexuality, the world sucks!!!").  





Response in spoiler:

Spoiler

I think a better example for rape would be something that tends to hapen a lot, some girl goes to a party or club, has too much to drink, goes home with a random dude and has sex with him. Not being able to deal with the fact that she had a one night stand, and the fact that she acted out of accordance with her values, et cetera, she calls the act rape. Perhaps the guy in this situation helped her along by supplying the drinks and all that, and clearly took advantage of the situation, however, it's simply a bad judgment call on her part.

Speaking in terms of car accidents, there are times when someone is 100% at fault. For example, people on their phones or eating and shit. I saw some chick slam into a parked car while eating a burger once. She actually really hurt the owner of that car because he was putting something into the back seat on the opposite side when suddenly his car gets ass raped... I don't argue where there are situations that both drivers are at fault. I think we've all seen that. Not to mention that people just get fucking stupid behind the wheel.

I don't disagree with you on this. I just think better examples could have been used.

#72 Bloodriot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:26 PM

Do you think the clichè bounces off the keyboard into the head and then shoots down the arms and fingers onto the computer screen, or do you think it is rattling around the lofty attic of Colleeda's head before tumbling down and forming itself on the computer screen?
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#73 Matisse

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

View PostBloodriot, on 04 February 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

clichè

Not sure if you did this intentionally or not

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View PostBreadstick, on 07 September 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

some pickles are really good


#74 Bloodriot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

huh

?
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#75 Matisse

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

é




And can we get rid of this 2-word rule already?

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View PostBreadstick, on 07 September 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

some pickles are really good


#76 Bloodriot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:24 PM

I did it on purpose.
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#77 treeqt

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostBloodriot, on 04 February 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

DAE think all naked women are whores?

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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#78 Kelustu

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

View PostBloodriot, on 04 February 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

When I see naked women in the street the sexual desire courses through my veins and I enter into a heightened state of reality, my vision gets enhanced, blood red passion builds and I set the woman in my crosshairs, she is about to be raped and I cannot stop myself, the masculity I feel is overwhelming.


DAE think all women are whores?

You're smarter than that, don't just throw out retarded strawman arguments. No one's saying that any rapist should be absolved of any blame, punishment or guilt whatsoever in any circumstance. HOWEVER, it is also unarguably possible that a woman that puts herself into a poor situation should acknowledge that poor choices were made. I see all these women rallies with girls saying that they should be allowed to walk around with almost no clothes on, drunk out of their mind, by themselves and not fear getting raped. Yes. They should. Nobody is saying otherwise (except for the rapists). I am saying, however, that rapists exist, and armed with that knowledge, maybe you should at least bring a coat to the party so you can cover up on your way home, get a cab there or sleep there and go with friends? Again, if the girl chooses to go against all of those things, the rapist should still have his dick cut off, but she shouldn't be sitting there acting as though nothing she did put her in harms way over other girls who aren't in harms way. She made poor choices, it's time to be an adult and own up to it.

It's the same thing with the armed robbery example. If you charge four armed robbers while unarmed, you're going to get shot and likely die. No one is saying that the robbers are absolved of any guilt or blame here (you fucking idiots are getting hung up on the notion that blame is zero-sum, it's not), but that nobody should be saying "oh, that poor man, he was just getting cash from an ATM and he got shot!". No, the fucker charged armed robbers without a weapon on him. That was moronic and he deserves blame for his own death/injury.
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#79 Bloodriot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:58 PM

It was a hyperbolic parody reply to illustrate the absurdity of his argument, not a straw man.
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#80 Slashgiggle

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

You're mom is a parody

gotem
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