34 replies to this topic

[Korzul]

Pretty sure enhance has the same issue with their mana regen. It took them years to fix windfury not proccing on absorbed damage too.

[Zerlog]

i stand by the post below me

Edited by Zerlog, 03 February 2013 - 09:05 PM.

[Djandawg]

Braindance, on 03 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

That is what I am saying. Every caster should care about mana. This design is fine - besides all melees lose their resources if their attacks get parried or dodged. And you are supposed to go oom - that's why you have mana and not energy or rage or anything else.

*this is not a bash post*

-A shadowpriest realistically only regens through vampiric touch, pet is 3 mins cd, it doesnt have amazing mana regen,gets easily countered, dispersion is something you save, it's a defensive. Also note that priest spells are awfully costly comparing to other classes.(You can check out wowhead and compare say, shadow word pain vs nether tempest vs unstable affliction)
-This should be trivial and you should not make such comparisons but:
A dodge/parry happens once every now and then, an absorb is up during a large chunk of every game depending on what you are facing. Also I can't speak about warriors etc but a parry/dodge does not consume combo points.
-It is true that people should go out of mana but your design perception is way off. No class should go oom by doing only damage. That's why spell stealing / healing are the current ooming components.No caster goes oom by dpsing, except shadowpriest, via absorbs and dispels stopping vt ticks.

Every post you make is either misinformed, biased or an irrelevant 1 liner and you are impossible to dodge because you are in every thread, posting awfully a lot. I don't know why, maybe it's  pure boredom but please increase your post quality and try to post less. You are polluting the forums.
This is not a buff request, it's a mere bug report on vt mana regen/vt dispel and your response is: Why would a caster care about mana? Yes fix it!

Hope you consider what I am saying.

Edited by Djandawg, 03 February 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[hairpiece]

in the defense of shadow priests, GC recently said on twitter that dps classes should not have to worry about mana for DPS.  This is why mages use literally no mana while dpsing, but things such as spellsteal use mana.  So if they stick to that tactic, heals should be similar to the mage "spellsteal bar", 5 heals and your oom, etc.   This becomes less of an issue than because although the priest is oom he can still dps, but he wont be able to heal as much, similar as to how a mage can't spellsteal right away after going oom.


Once again, this is blizzards new logic, according to GC on twitter.   It has its ups and its downs, i'm not sure how to feel about it.

[Braindance]

Djandawg, on 03 February 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

*this is not a bash post*

-A shadowpriest realistically only regens through vampiric touch, pet is 3 mins cd, it doesnt have amazing mana regen,gets easily countered, dispersion is something you save, it's a defensive. Also note that priest spells are awfully costly comparing to other classes.(You can check out wowhead and compare say, shadow word pain vs nether tempest vs unstable affliction)
-This should be trivial and you should not make such comparisons but:
A dodge/parry happens once every now and then, an absorb is up during a large chunk of every game depending on what you are facing. Also I can't speak about warriors etc but a parry/dodge does not consume combo points.
-It is true that people should go out of mana but your design perception is way off. No class should go oom by doing only damage. That's why spell stealing / healing are the current ooming components.No caster goes oom by dpsing, except shadowpriest, via absorbs and dispels stopping vt ticks.

Every post you make is either misinformed, biased or an irrelevant 1 liner and you are impossible to dodge because you are in every thread, posting awfully a lot. I don't know why, maybe it's  pure boredom but please increase your post quality and try to post less. You are polluting the forums.
This is not a buff request, it's a mere bug report on vt mana regen/vt dispel and your response is: Why would a caster care about mana? Yes fix it!

Hope you consider what I am saying.

The current design where mana is no longer relevant is bad - dps casters should go oom eventually. It is bad design if a class does not have to care about how to manage its resource. If you get a parry or a dodge you don't lose the resources but you lose the cooldown itself from kidney shot to mortal strike. Now that spell resist has been removed you don't even have to care for that - all spells are guaranteed to hit as long as you are hit capped. Resources are there to limit your damage and make you take smart decisions - just because other casters don't care that much about mana doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about it too. Every caster should have some kind of mana management and the design of getting VT up to get mana back is good. That type of design should apply to every caster.

Now for the bold part which is quite funny. I urge you to find 1 post that is misinformed or biased out all my posts. On the contrary all of your posts tend to be extremely biased towards priests and against every melee - just take a look at your post history, I'm not the one calling everyone "mongo gods of plate" and whatnot. You should reconsider the meaning of the words biased, misinformed and pollute.

[Djandawg]

Braindance, on 03 February 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

I urge you to find 1 post that is misinformed

sure

Braindance, on 03 February 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

all melees lose their resources if their attacks get parried or dodged.

Braindance, on 03 February 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

If you get a parry or a dodge you don't lose the resources

You post so much random bs, you forget what you wrote.

And on top of that, you are comparing absorbs preventing mana regen with melee parry and dodge in arena(which you didn't know the resource principle). I prefer attributing this kind of approach to being misinformed or biased because the other option is less elegant.

Following one of your many one liners:

Braindance, on 31 January 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Why would a caster care about mana? Yes fix it!

You make sarcastic comments about things you have no clue about and put yourself in bad spots trying to defend it later. Again put some thought into your posts and make sure you have basic knowledge about them and don't derail a bug fix request thread.

Edited by Djandawg, 03 February 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[Braindance]

Djandawg, on 03 February 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

sure






You post so much random bs, you forget what you wrote.

And on top of that, you are comparing absorbs preventing mana regen with melee parry and dodge in arena(which you didn't know the resource principle). I prefer attributing this kind of approach to being misinformed or biased because the other option is less elegant.

Following one of your many one liners:



You make sarcastic comments about things you have no clue about and put yourself in bad spots trying to defend it later. Again put some thought into your posts and make sure you have basic knowledge about them and don't derail a bug fix request thread.

You should have read my final post a bit more carefully. I admit that perhaps out of haste I wrote that melees lose resources. I suggest you watch your tone and writing style a bit because I won't be that kind the next time. It's a public forum where I can post my opinion about a matter and that is what I am doing in a respectful and kind manner - it is normal to give and take criticism. I respond with one liners only to things I regard as weird/out of place.

Now, because I am open to and I enjoy criticism feel free to criticize and comment on my personal opinions in the same manner as I am responding to yours. But don't come off so hostile ever again for your own sake.

[Djandawg]

Let go, you wanted a post you made that was misinformed. I showed it. I don't use forums to get in arguments with people then try to own them. I don't think you would genuinely believe that absorbs preventing mana regen is comparable to melee dodge/parry.

I only request(I think rightfully) that you do not derail the thread with incorrect information / wrong comparisons. I think you can consider this request as you said you were open to criticism.
Also my points stand, threats like watch it for your own sake etc after being admittedly wrong are just unneccessary.

[hairpiece]

Braindance, on 03 February 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

You should have read my final post a bit more carefully. I admit that perhaps out of haste I wrote that melees lose resources. I suggest you watch your tone and writing style a bit because I won't be that kind the next time. It's a public forum where I can post my opinion about a matter and that is what I am doing in a respectful and kind manner - it is normal to give and take criticism. I respond with one liners only to things I regard as weird/out of place.

Now, because I am open to and I enjoy criticism feel free to criticize and comment on my personal opinions in the same manner as I am responding to yours. But don't come off so hostile ever again for your own sake.

why would you respond to him like that?  what are you going to do?  beat him up?  foolish response.


hope the VT bug with shields gets noticed



also

Edited by hairpiece, 04 February 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[Zerych]

The point of this thread is not that sp need more regen, or an other way to gain mana back. It's about the fact that the way we gain mana back don't work vs some class/comb (and I think with the come back of rogue and Dpriest next season it will be worst...) and it's not cool.

And ofc, why the F*CK our dispell protection have some dr again

[Braindance]

Djandawg, on 04 February 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

Let go, you wanted a post you made that was misinformed. I showed it. I don't use forums to get in arguments with people then try to own them. I don't think you would genuinely believe that absorbs preventing mana regen is comparable to melee dodge/parry.

I only request(I think rightfully) that you do not derail the thread with incorrect information / wrong comparisons. I think you can consider this request as you said you were open to criticism.
Also my points stand, threats like watch it for your own sake etc after being admittedly wrong are just unneccessary.

I rarely get into arguments and as you can see I genuinely try to avoid them. My main point is that mana should matter and no caster should be able to cast forever with complete disregard for his/her resource. Absorbs might feel clunky ok, but some kind of limiting mechanic to control mana should exist (for every caster not sps'  explicitly). The same exact mechanic used to apply for rage in BC and for Thirst for Blood (the overpower proc) in WotLK. It's and annoying mechanic and shouldn't exist true - but again, my only point of concern is the infinite mana bolded part. That's what I think and that's what I would like to see in the game.

I didn't threaten you - I just don't react well to hostility.

[Braindance]

hairpiece, on 04 February 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

why would you respond to him like that?  what are you going to do?  beat him up?  foolish response.


hope the VT bug with shields gets noticed



also

[Sherpdawerp]

zsuper, on 03 February 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

The problem is that we're the only caster that cares about mana and our only mana cooldown is our only defensive cooldown. If too many VT ticks get absorbed (or even if they don't get absorbed, our mana doesn't break even when multi DoTing), we go OOM and then we can do fuck all for the rest of the match.

That's a brilliant design. You should be punished for not giving a fuck and just dotting everything in your sight without giving it thought.. if you're going oom focus on VTing.. I personally always thought the warlock playstyle was stupid with dotting the whole world up, and then they even implemented soul swap which I thought was sooo stupid cus they didn't even have to dot everything up anymore.. anyway these are my thoughts and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this

[Chromix]

I'm very glad to say that VT gives mana when its damage is absorbed on the current PTR build.
If this has already been mentioned I'm sorry for bringing old news.

Didn't actually get to try sin and punishment DR however.

[Ahlaundoh]

Goddamn braindance, quit spamming hyphens. Did you ever learn syntax?