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Blanket CS change reverted!!! + more good stuff


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#81 Moshe

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

Great, now revert the overpower rage cost and second wind while we're at it

#82 wtfbro

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:57 PM

View PostMoshe, on 25 January 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Great, now revert the overpower rage cost and second wind while we're at it
yeah and let's buff avatar dmg a bit while we're at it LOL

#83 Renaissance_Man

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:09 PM

View PostMaticzor, on 25 January 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

but the question is, do they have room for that glyph?

We have all this expansion, yes.

#84 stalebagel

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

The CS revert was the right one, I'm sorry for people who consider it an improvement to the meta game and in the long-term it probably is but you can't honestly believe a blanket CS nerf is appropriate without a complete revamp of all the healers in respect to the appeal of instant over casted heals.
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#85 Djandawg

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:14 PM

View PostZilea, on 25 January 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

It's not good game design for a comp or combination of classes to deep , blanket , blanket, Pom poly, instant clone , fear, etc with no diminishing returns . It's bad game design , bad for balance , horrible mechanics and not fun for anyone .

Removing one shots are important (aka warrior burst), but they need to make those ccs dr, and they need to do a few other things like reduce repentance duration , nerf totemic restoration , and remove life swap from shadow . Those are fair changes aimed at pushing the game in the right direction .


Let me introduce you to the life of other classes, if the other team had a priest and druid healer and they had 3 stacks of life bloom + rejuv + renew + pom they would still do less instant healing than holyshock + wog mechanic. So everything above you mentioned are bad design but holy paladin instant healing is ok?

Every healer gets raped by melee cleaves, in fact if they don't have cds, they get solod by some melee classes, where as holy paladins don't even get targeted, so in your world of wow design, not only your class is the only one that can't get trained by melee, they should not be killed by casters since you heal bomb for 150k on regular basis with instants and there is no way to stop those without blankets

So a good design according to you is every healer has to cast but holy paladins won't and they will continue healing indefinitely with instants and if it comes to worse, they can bubble. aura mastery to cast heals, also they are not susceptible to get trained by melee and by good design principles they should not get killed by casters either.

#86 Capstone

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

it has come to my attention that there is a dev reading the thread so i'm here to pass along some ideas about the game


Druid- It's great to have moves like Ironbark up 24/7 so that people can forget about killing any targets in the arena, I would just maybe like this class to have another move that resets people who try to attack them. Maybe if you let them take Ice Block or some other hard reset from a class and also gave them a move that teleports them, say, 20 yards? Also make it make them invisible. And don't let them heal people. Their heals should do so little that nobody really cares if the target has full hots, just barkskin.

Hunter- Hunters are pretty perfect, just give them a fourth or maybe fifth way to break out of any CC in the game including Cyclone with their offensive cooldowns. And some instant CC. I can't tell you how much more skilled the game has gotten since stacking a melee class with a hunter and instant CCing while you extend as far as the arena will possibly allow has been a part of arena. When I'm in an arena, I find the truly great hunters do things to separate themselves from the pretty good ones.

Mage- This class is great right now. The good players are very easily separated from the bad when casting Frostbolt (which is thankfully impossible) is a much less valuable time investment than say, Frostfire Bolt, Nether Tempest, Frozen Orb, Ice Lance, actually running on top of your target and casting Frost Nova so you can Ice Lance, thus spending two globals to do more damage than Frostbolt. I also really like that in most scenarios, the class is unable to use any abilities without playing with the best class in the game. This way, most mages will all gravitate toward two caster compositions that rely on both they and their shadowpriest jamming instants (their highest damage abilities) while the mage uses crowd control abilities like Deep Freeze, Presence of Mind, and Improved Counterspell at the healer. It helps a lot that these moves are instant, not on the global cooldown, and don't even require you to be facing your target. Frost Bomb and Nether Tempest are also too much fun. I love the Frost Bomb hope-they-let-you-cast-it-then-hope-it-doesn't-get-dispelled-then-hope-you-don't-get-hit-with-one-of-the-1000-instant-ccs-in-the-game-so-you-can-put-a-freeze-ability-on-it-at-the-end minigame.

Paladin- They don't have enough instant heals. This game was at its best when paladins actually didn't have to use any casts. Also, it's pretty intuitive to have a plate wearing class Usain Bolt at you at 5000% speed and use two globals to CC your healer for 11 seconds.

Priest- Really did a good job with this one. Disc and shadow, both in a perfect spot. I would maybe consider giving shadowform a passive 8000% increase to damage and healing, but that's it.

Rogue- I like how this class presents a challenging environment for both teams for most of the arena game, but their cooldowns just don't do enough damage. If you could set it up such that the game is a 2v3 until cooldowns are up, and then the game immediately becomes about CCing the rogue or using every defensive cooldown you have while their cooldowns are active, that would be a fun way to play the game.

Shaman- Everyone likes AoE fear dispel on a 30 second cooldown, and it seems like that's definitely what you guys intended, so I'm not surprised that you have left what appears on the surface to be a mechanic that wasn't thought out in the game, making a shaman's team immune to fear for most of the arena. This class is just a little too good at surviving. Given that they were surviving so well before, making it so that they can never use totems if anyone is looking at them was the best solution to the problems that were at hand, but I still feel as though they are too hard to cleave. When I play a cleave, I don't want to have to worry about the other two players on the opposing team, I just want to cleave that shaman. Work on this.

Warlock- Demonology warlocks are the best thing ever to happen to the game. I really like what you did by making all of their damage, CC, defensive abilities, etc. instants, and then making something that the game may hinge on a 5 second cast that is done at the start of the game that may or may not get off. One super long cast and then none for the remainder of the game is the way the class should be played. The only suggestion I would have is maybe every time the warlock jumps in arena, they can get a 5% damage buff, stacking infinitely. Affliction is too good at surviving though. Maybe just make Demon Soul increase their DoT damage and reduce their HP by 50%.

Warrior- I don't know where to start with how much better this class has gotten in the five years since it was at its worst in BC. Maybe just remove battle and berserker stance and make their cooldowns do more damage.

#87 rtcinema

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:25 PM

Ring of Peace right now on PTR is casted on friendly targets but still silences you for the full 8 seconds regardless of what you cast.

Quote

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"No, it makes the game unbalanced."

#88 Evolute

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

View PostCapstone, on 25 January 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

it has come to my attention that there is a dev reading the thread so i'm here to pass along some ideas about the game

that was a lot of sarcasm in one post

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#89 Sweatyfingrs

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

I just jizzed
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#90 Nokilolz

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:41 PM

View PostCapstone, on 25 January 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

it has come to my attention that there is a dev reading the thread so i'm here to pass along some ideas about the game


Druid- It's great to have moves like Ironbark up 24/7 so that people can forget about killing any targets in the arena, I would just maybe like this class to have another move that resets people who try to attack them. Maybe if you let them take Ice Block or some other hard reset from a class and also gave them a move that teleports them, say, 20 yards? Also make it make them invisible. And don't let them heal people. Their heals should do so little that nobody really cares if the target has full hots, just barkskin.

Hunter- Hunters are pretty perfect, just give them a fourth or maybe fifth way to break out of any CC in the game including Cyclone with their offensive cooldowns. And some instant CC. I can't tell you how much more skilled the game has gotten since stacking a melee class with a hunter and instant CCing while you extend as far as the arena will possibly allow has been a part of arena. When I'm in an arena, I find the truly great hunters do things to separate themselves from the pretty good ones.

Mage- This class is great right now. The good players are very easily separated from the bad when casting Frostbolt (which is thankfully impossible) is a much less valuable time investment than say, Frostfire Bolt, Nether Tempest, Frozen Orb, Ice Lance, actually running on top of your target and casting Frost Nova so you can Ice Lance, thus spending two globals to do more damage than Frostbolt. I also really like that in most scenarios, the class is unable to use any abilities without playing with the best class in the game. This way, most mages will all gravitate toward two caster compositions that rely on both they and their shadowpriest jamming instants (their highest damage abilities) while the mage uses crowd control abilities like Deep Freeze, Presence of Mind, and Improved Counterspell at the healer. It helps a lot that these moves are instant, not on the global cooldown, and don't even require you to be facing your target. Frost Bomb and Nether Tempest are also too much fun. I love the Frost Bomb hope-they-let-you-cast-it-then-hope-it-doesn't-get-dispelled-then-hope-you-don't-get-hit-with-one-of-the-1000-instant-ccs-in-the-game-so-you-can-put-a-freeze-ability-on-it-at-the-end minigame.

Paladin- They don't have enough instant heals. This game was at its best when paladins actually didn't have to use any casts. Also, it's pretty intuitive to have a plate wearing class Usain Bolt at you at 5000% speed and use two globals to CC your healer for 11 seconds.

Priest- Really did a good job with this one. Disc and shadow, both in a perfect spot. I would maybe consider giving shadowform a passive 8000% increase to damage and healing, but that's it.

Rogue- I like how this class presents a challenging environment for both teams for most of the arena game, but their cooldowns just don't do enough damage. If you could set it up such that the game is a 2v3 until cooldowns are up, and then the game immediately becomes about CCing the rogue or using every defensive cooldown you have while their cooldowns are active, that would be a fun way to play the game.

Shaman- Everyone likes AoE fear dispel on a 30 second cooldown, and it seems like that's definitely what you guys intended, so I'm not surprised that you have left what appears on the surface to be a mechanic that wasn't thought out in the game, making a shaman's team immune to fear for most of the arena. This class is just a little too good at surviving. Given that they were surviving so well before, making it so that they can never use totems if anyone is looking at them was the best solution to the problems that were at hand, but I still feel as though they are too hard to cleave. When I play a cleave, I don't want to have to worry about the other two players on the opposing team, I just want to cleave that shaman. Work on this.

Warlock- Demonology warlocks are the best thing ever to happen to the game. I really like what you did by making all of their damage, CC, defensive abilities, etc. instants, and then making something that the game may hinge on a 5 second cast that is done at the start of the game that may or may not get off. One super long cast and then none for the remainder of the game is the way the class should be played. The only suggestion I would have is maybe every time the warlock jumps in arena, they can get a 5% damage buff, stacking infinitely. Affliction is too good at surviving though. Maybe just make Demon Soul increase their DoT damage and reduce their HP by 50%.

Warrior- I don't know where to start with how much better this class has gotten in the five years since it was at its worst in BC. Maybe just remove battle and berserker stance and make their cooldowns do more damage.
Stupid sarcastic posts like this make me bash my head in

#91 fearlol

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:45 PM

View PostCapstone, on 25 January 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Affliction is too good at surviving though. Maybe just make Demon Soul increase their DoT damage and reduce their HP by 50%.


:eek:

Edited by fearlol, 25 January 2013 - 11:47 PM.


#92 stalebagel

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

View PostCapstone, on 25 January 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Demonology warlocks are the best thing ever to happen to the game.

edit: almost raged at some satire, cheeky aj posters

Posted Image

Edited by stalebagel, 25 January 2013 - 11:59 PM.

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#93 Tuxer

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:52 PM

HELL FUCKING YEAH. THANK MY THREAD ON THE OFFICIAL FORUMS HOMIES. BOOOM
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#94 Coldizzle

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:58 PM

NICE!!!!
i hope i didnt lost my time crying on the forums

#95 inkorperated

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:10 AM

They are right though, we probably should play and give feedback on the PTR instead of just whine on AJ.

#96 Bigmoran

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

I like the recommendation of making blanket silences last for a shorter duration. Perhaps all healing specializations could have a passive -25% to silence durations. Also, the mage 2 set bonus could be changed to something else (maybe make bomb spells not break polymorphs)

I like Zilea's recommendation of removing Lifeswap from shadow priests (though his behavior in this thread is quite childish). Another remedy could be having disperse and lifeswap share a cooldown - or put each other on a 30 second cooldown.

35 yard cyclone will be a bit odd. Ranging cyclone casts is an imporant part of the meta game that I think should stay. I still think Symbiosis needs a major overhaul. IceBlock, Dispersion, Bubble should never be granted to a druid.

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View PostIcekingx, on 26 November 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Emma Watson would call Bigmoran and hang up cause she knows hes WAY to good for her.

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#97 Zilea

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

People need to remember , when you complain about melee cleaves: warrior cleaves and feral cleaves are gone next patch . KFC is most likely done , especially with the increased strength of monk and rogues coming . Rogue + monk cleaves may become overpowered but warrior and feral cleaves are done . Veev is going back to warlock , that's how bad it's going to be for warriors next patch

#98 Coldizzle

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

View PostTalbadar, on 25 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

This is a good point to make. Because of the short cooldown and duration of the blanket... the decision is very simple. Counterspell is a good example of a poorly designed interrupt/blanket. It has a 4 second silence component and a 6 second interrupt component.
Counterspell used to be an 8sec interrupt they should bring it back.
:D

#99 Athená

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:24 AM

Not to bothered about this reversion, I really don't feel that mages are OP anymore atm.
Except for the idiotic PoM given to frost, that is just plain retarded. I've litterally had matches above 2.4k mmr where the only time a mage would get a ring/poly off is with PoM, disgusting.

I think they will reduce cyclone range again, they've tried changing it before and reverted it then too.

Back in wotlk paladins used to have a lot of cc reducing effects, such as 30% off silences, disorients, fears and stuns. If we were to go back to that paladins healing could get nerfed.
Because right now, in the current state of the game paladins don't have passive healing and barely any outs*. So that when we do finally get out it's somewhat justified that we do insane healing considering we'll be in another dr of cc the next second.

*Trinket and bubble considering sac mostly just gets instantly purged off or doesn't even break the cc you're in. (used to break of already like 1 damage taken, fears never seem to break in MoP either.

Edited by Athená, 26 January 2013 - 12:26 AM.

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#100 djp771133

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 12:28 AM

So mages get their cs, can I get my no-rage overpowers back?




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