195 replies to this topic

[Syia]

affix, on 28 January 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

we have literally always had ICS in our main pvp spec

[/background][/size][/font][/color]
5.2 isn't live yet, there's more changes coming... ICS hasn't even been removed from PTR yet.

You definitely did not have to spec ICS in BC.

[Wetworks]

affix, on 28 January 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

we have literally always had ICS in our main pvp spec

[/background][/size][/font][/color]
5.2 isn't live yet, there's more changes coming... ICS hasn't even been removed from PTR yet.

I'm not sure if you are getting what I'm trying to imply. Blizzard added blankets on mage/lock silences in the mid of WotLK (not to certain on that sorry if I'm wrong) due to the fact they felt arena matches were lasting to "long" and figuring that would be one way to help fix that issue. Now matches are over sometimes seconds after the gates open, I'm sure blizzard didn't intend for that. With the next patch and buffs to certain classes I only see it getting worse. I'm not sure how it is for a majority of other healing classes but going into a deep>blanket cs + another dps damage and cc isn't fun.

The fact you as a player can't control those type of things bother me. I could los, fake, heal, position perfectly and still lose a game because of that. That's one thing I've felt that blizzard had made quite clear over each new xpac individual skill/teamwork no long matter but class and comp do.

Edited by Wetworks, 28 January 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Crawthz]

Wetworks, on 28 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Once upon a time in the game of World of Warcraft mages and warlocks didn't have blanket silences and you actually had to be good about managing your cs/sl to hardlock other casters.

Once upon time Mages have had Improved Counterspell in spellbook/talenbuild since start of the game.

Edited by Crawthz, 28 January 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[Djandawg]

Wetworks, on 28 January 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I'm not sure how it is for a majority of other healing classes but going into a deep>blanket cs + another dps damage and cc isn't fun.

The fact you as a player can't control those type of things bother me. I could los, fake, heal, position perfectly and still lose a game because of that.

What faking are you talking about? You don't cast as paladin. In fact you can fuck up every single aspect of the healer game you mentioned above and win as a paladin because your ability to heal bomb someone with instants for huge amounts. It's such a common occurrence that people go from 10k hp to 150k hp between clones on the paladin and if God forbid you have to cast, you have bubble and aura mastery.
Holy paladin is the class with the most error tolerance, so people talking about playing a flawless game is comical.

If you wanna compare healing experiences, please make a priest or druid or monk with full gear on TR, see if you can %10-%100 someone in 2 globals like you do on your paladin or prevent deaths with healing/defensive cooldowns.

Also, it's pretty scary how greedy people are. Every single other healer is defenseless against melee training, they have to cast non stop to keep someone up, how outrageous is double bop vs melee? All healers do less dmg than a holy paladin. All healers have less cc than a holy paladin. Only thing that stops a holy paladin from healing is improved cs since your class can not be interrupted while instant-healing anyway and you guys want that small thing GONE, because it's not enough to be the best healer in every aspect of the game. What else can we do for you? Do you want displacer beast? Nature's guardian? Permanent %40 less spell dmg taken? Blanket immunity? Tell us, so you can keep winning games by outplaying others, as paladins have been doing with kitty/kfc etc.

Edited by Djandawg, 28 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[Wetworks]

I do agree every class has too much insta cast. As for your comment about pally burst healing its been like that since the dawn of time that's nothing this xpac brought. Paladin has always been the best healer to have against melee cleaves...I don't know all the things youre stating are obvious facts that people have known forever. To be honest I wouldnt mind losing the cc we gained this xpac..the class still needs to play so defensive  to be effective.

Djandawg, on 28 January 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

because it's not enough to be the best healer in every aspect of the game.

Lol paladins maybe are good 1 season of every xpac sometimes 2 to compete in all 3 of the ladders, but don't you worry I will bet money that midway thru MoP shamans,priest, and druids (not sure about monks in general) will be dominating the ladders and tourney play ALWAYS happens.

[Djandawg]

I don't think every class has too much instants. Holy paladins do, holy shock + wog + holy prism is a disease. In fact you can put a disc priest and druid on one team, a single holy paladin instants will do more healing than renew + pom + 3 stack lifebloom + rejuv.

Please, "paladin worst healer every expansion" is kinda dumb, TSG and PHD won blizzcon. At the end of last expansion, druids were the worst healers, wotlk, priests were the worst, tbc druid was the best, everything else had 1 reliable comp.

Edited by Djandawg, 28 January 2013 - 08:37 PM.

[Thugjitsu]

Dakkrothy, on 26 January 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

ofc, hahaha

I would ALPHA both of those sports bra wearing donkeys!

[Seu]

Pretty weird ideas going on in this thread about holy pallies,

I think the frustration of playing paladin is that there is just very little you can do - the skillcap is insanely low most games. Yes you are correct in saying that if a paladin has to cast they can use aura or bubble, but once your cds are down as pala you dont have something like hots, es, or even on my priest i will always get a pws pom renew rolling when i know i have to juke a cs and sit in a blanket. Once a game goes past a certain length against a holy pally team they are pretty fucked. Paladins are thus forced to play zergy comps where the main goal is finding a healer that can either stay alive or keep them alive for the minute it takes to get them a kill - as soon as you put a paladin in a normal melee caster healer setup the weaknesses of the class become extremely apparent.

I feel like the majority of good pallies would be happy with having to cast heals if they got some kind of tradeoff where they werent so easy to cc or gib outside of big cooldowns. Druids can shapeshift a lot of cds, shamans have the best cc breaker in the game in tremor as well as shock and grounding, and priests have ok cc avoidance in the form of fade and spectral guise,but paladins only have sac bubble and aura which are all not only much larger cooldowns but involve sacrificing huge defensives in order to stay out of cc's that other healers dont.

On top of this, druids can bark while stunned, priests can pain sup, and rshams generally dont need a cooldown to prevent getting 100-0 in kidney because earthshield is sick. Paladins are BY FAR the easiest healer to gib in a 5 second stun. With pally raper comps like spriest rogue likely rising to dominance next patch, this gameplay is going to get even worse with pally teams either getting kills in the first 30 seconds or the pally dying 30 seconds later.

TLDR: Paladins are by design a frustrating class to play against, and to play. sick game design

[affix]

Syia, on 28 January 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

You definitely did not have to spec ICS in BC.

classic:  http://www.gamestool...ow112/maget.php

tbc:  http://www.gamestool...ow243/maget.php

wotlk:  http://www.gamestool...ow335/maget.php

ICS was always a talent and the standard frost spec was always 17/0/x or 20/0/x

Edited by affix, 29 January 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[affix]

Wetworks, on 28 January 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

I'm not sure if you are getting what I'm trying to imply. Blizzard added blankets on mage/lock silences in the mid of WotLK (not to certain on that sorry if I'm wrong) due to the fact they felt arena matches were lasting to "long" and figuring that would be one way to help fix that issue.

I get what you're trying to imply, you're just factually wrong.  Mages have literally always had a talented silence on counterspell.  Since level 60.  You're making up some weird alternative reality where they added it after arenas had already happened.

Quote

Now matches are over sometimes seconds after the gates open, I'm sure blizzard didn't intend for that. With the next patch and buffs to certain classes I only see it getting worse. I'm not sure how it is for a majority of other healing classes but going into a deep>blanket cs + another dps damage and cc isn't fun.

Every expansion people say the same shit.  "Games used to last a long time, last expansion was so much better".  Guess what, every single expansion people got killed in seconds.  The only time when that wasn't the case was when Druid heals were insane in S3/S4 and as long as they kept 3 blooms someone they were unkillable.  But in TBC, WOTLK, Cata, and now MoP, if a team coordinates their damage against a target that doesn't pop defensives, that target can die in 4 seconds or less.  It's amazing how quickly people forget this, because every expansion the first season there's a few overpowered classes that can gib people on their own... then those classes get nerfed... and people forget about the first season of that particular expansion.

Edited by affix, 29 January 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[Wetworks]

I never said anything about an xpac being better then another. What I stated was something I remember Blizzard stating in patch notes/interview/blue post about the reasoning behind giving mages and warlocks a permanent soft locks on their interrupting spells. Paladins dying in deep freeze/blanket silences (for example) when cooldowns have been used has happened for a while now this isn't about a class that needs a nerf in a season. Everyone says its gonna make pallies so op if the change went thru, but paladins already are left in the dust some point every xpac because every other healer has some type of passive to keep teammates up during cc, have some amazing cc breaker, or have some way of avoiding cc in general on a short cd. Which is why we are forced to play a few setups or sticking to 5v5 arena where you can get some dispells.

Changing blanket lockouts isn't gonna change the fact paladins are more vulnerable to cc and more costly when they are then any other healing class.

Edited by Wetworks, 29 January 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[Capstone]

Wetworks, on 28 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Once upon a time in the game of World of Warcraft mages and warlocks didn't have blanket silences and you actually had to be good about managing your cs/sl to hardlock other casters.

Wetworks, on 28 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Once upon a time in the game of World of Warcraft mages didn't have blanket silences

yes

Wetworks, on 28 January 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Once upon a time in the game of World of Warcraft warlocks didn't have blanket silences

no

[Wetworks]

I already stated what I was impying about blankets, YES mages did have a talent to get a 4 sec interrupt regardless if the counterspell locked a cast or not. It was not required to get as a mage to play the class properly. Considering I knew a lot of them that didn't get it because there were better talents.

[Capstone]

Wetworks, on 29 January 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

I already stated what I was impying about blankets, YES mages did have a talent to get a 4 sec interrupt regardless if the counterspell locked a cast or not. It was not required to get as a mage to play the class properly. Considering I knew a lot of them that didn't get it because there were better talents.

yes, i agree, but if i remember correctly, spell lock has been a blanket since release

[Djandawg]

No one cares about the chronological evolution of counterspell.
If the holy paladin class can run around with  sprint + freedom, jumping & instant healing for 90-130k on regular basis, then you will get improved counterspelled, so that you faceroll less, it's a very foreign concept to you guys but other healers have to deal with interrupts, they actually stand a good chance to lose when they get interrupted. I mean what were you expecting, pressing 1-2-3 indefinitely and never die?

I understand that the class has been the most brainless healer for years and majority of its players have been succeeding with complete disregard to what has been happening in arena, enemy cooldowns etc but maybe your fellow plate mongoloids can stop spamming unhealable dmg and react to swaps or maybe even better, you can pop divine protection before the swap(this is extreme for regular paladin awareness).
I can guarantee you that every other healer can become a top paladin easily but a paladin will have to put a lot of time / effort to play a shaman or priest. So here is the deal, you can keep pressing 1-2-3 and rocking rating with cleaves, you just will have to learn enemy cooldowns and spells( most paladins are unaware of enemy team abilities because they don't have to know) and call out for peels. You will have to train your melee mongoloid buddies so they stop reading dmg numbers on the screen and peel though.

Edited by Djandawg, 29 January 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Saikx]

I don't know about you guys but I am still baffled about how a Paladin with 4 R1 Titles can be such a fucking retard and talk the same shit as those 1,2k rated mongo Paladins//Warriors w/e. While having literally ZERO insight whats happening in the Arena at the moment.

Can't even bring myself to reply to this spastic, too much rage.

[Deeklol]

Just wanna say

Fuckin kfc

[Classiks]

I don't know why mages are crying about paladins... Just deep 3x pyro them and laugh!

Seriously most of guys are saying "look at this 4x r1 pally rage" when most of you are raging and ganging up on him.

Ok so everyone knows for the entirety of arena history paladins have instant cast. WE GET THAT so shut up and listen; I'd be all for getting rid of paladin instants if all casters would start casting again...... The only casters who actually cast are healers these days.


Edit: almost forgot I sure as hell cast more than any damn Mage, go watch jah play fire. He just spins around doing unhealable dmg killing every healer.

Edited by Classiks, 29 January 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Djandawg]

Classiks, on 29 January 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Ok so everyone knows for the entirety of arena history paladins have instant cast. WE GET THAT so shut up and listen; I'd be all for getting rid of paladin instants if all casters would start casting again...... The only casters who actually cast are healers these days.

Do you even know when holy power/ word of glory mechanic was introduced? Look it up and come back to tell us about the entirety of arena history of paladin instant casting.

[Classiks]

Djandawg, on 29 January 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

[/size]
Do you even know when holy power/ word of glory mechanic was introduced? Look it up and come back to tell us about the entirety of arena history of paladin instant casting.

Do you not remember instant flash of light?  What if priest didn't have pw:s or pom

Btw it's back for holy! Yay lololololol around build up 5hp 3stacks of shock and just save it for incoming burst GEEE that sounds so hard it's almost like pre shielding or prehotting but those take so much more skill that all paladins are just random baddies.


Ohhhh my bad if you play shadow you just wait for that inastsnt mind blast with 3point DP to solo the healer with right?? I'm sorry but we can take pod shots at eachother all day.

Edited by Classiks, 29 January 2013 - 05:20 AM.