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#81

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:16 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 22 January 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

rofl

If you read what I said, everyone agrees tremor should be nerfed too, of all the abilities listed it is the only one comparable to mass dispel.

#82 Ruddx

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

Waiting for a "Bloodfear is fine" Thread.

#83 Domesauce

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

View PostTalbadar, on 22 January 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Said it before: defensive MD is too strong right now and will be stronger next patch. Spriests are a top spec and will be among the top 3 next patch. By ONLY taking away MD spriests will be a fair fight and be more fun to play against. Void Shift is fine. People generally complain about Void Shift not because it's unfair, but because it's annoying and they wanted their target dead and oh no he didn't die. It is a necessary spell to have. Especially now that MD removes everything off your party, it doesn't have a good spot in PvP. I feel like it's clunky for healy Priests to use defensively as well, but they need that for raiding so whatever.

I know that defensive cooldowns will feel necessary with how this game is right now, but when nobody else has this insane type of ability it actually is completely unfair.

It should only be usable to save the priest himself, like everybody else's defensives.

Edited by Domesauce, 22 January 2013 - 08:34 PM.


#84 GrieverZ

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

Try landing a trap agains't Spriest/Warrior/Xhealer. Fun rofl.

#85 majorblood

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:35 PM

make spriest md offensive only
remove tremor from totemic restoration

buff warlocks to overlord status

#86 Pootius_6592477

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

View Postlukyroughneck08, on 22 January 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

I dont think they should just drop the spell completely, they should give us something in exchange thats worth using. I would honestly like it if they made our damage less about procs and gave us archangel back was a fun CD to play with!

Couldn't agree more.  I really disliked the orb redesign and don't like having orbs on psychic horror.  What made shadow fun was being able to use offensive cds at any given time.  Everything is ramp-up damage now, unlike most classes, who have on command burst in MoP. remove MD from shadow as a defensive spell (let us keep for massing offensive shields i.e block and divine shield) and at least make psychic horror off orb system. I guess the one interesting thing about sharing spriest disarm with devouring plague on orb usage is choosing what's most prudent to use when going for a kill; full disarm on healer or dps or a 3 orb devouring plague? Or maybe if they re-work our class to rely less on procs, perhaps buffing shadow word: insanity.  My suggestion would be to allow us to use it on the same target if multiple SWP's are active.  reducing it's overall damage slightly, but allowing us to dot multiple targets yet pick which target(s) we want to use it on, with a maximum usage of 3 on any given target.  Although if we want to get back to relying more on casts, which is a good thing, then a change like this would likely be frowned upon.

Edited by Pootius_6592477, 22 January 2013 - 09:04 PM.


#87 Maticzor

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:03 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

You're trying to make a point in your childish sarco-spastic way but it's true. It is a huge problem. I will give you a few examples, if you still can't process it, you can pm me, I will send you some extra scenarios until you get it.
-You wanna deep swap with cc on sp, jk sp is immune to spells, deep/bomb massdispelled.
-You get low vs spell cleave, you don't die because you just are immune %10 of the time.

As for your  final gem:"no DPS spec should be able to dispel magic from their parnters."

Sure buddy, we will remove tremor(30 sec cd) / decurse from dps shamans, decurse from mages and dps druids, we will also implement a new bop, it will not break your partner's blind and intim shout anymore, same way a MoF that will not dispel entangling roots.
Dude fade is fine, immunity to spells doesn't mean you can't get shockwaved or dragon breath or rof.. deep swap wont be used when u are immune to spells for 3 sec.. the fact that you are able to ruin a killing opportunity in deepfreeze by mass dispelling it is retarded.

Sure you can peel for deep, you can off heal or w/e. But you shouldn't be able to dispel the effect as a DPS spec. Deep is 30 sec cd and probably the only way mages can get real burst going on.

Stop trying to move the radar away, the main issue here is Mass Dispel, I'm gonna do a little comparison.
(feel free to add what I missed)

Tremor: Fears
Decurse: Hex

Now let's take a look at Mass dispel.
Dispels magic in a 15 yard radius, removing ----> all <--- harmful spells from each friendly target and 1 beneficial spells from each enemy target.

Mass Dispel: Repentance, Polymorph, Ring of Frost, Hammer of Justice, Freezing Trap, Fears, Hibernate, Blinding light, Deepfreeze, Dragonbreath, Entangling Root, Frost Nova and the list goes on..

Also while dispelling the cc, you dispel dots such as Frost Bomb, Haunt ..etc

You see the difference? Do you think its fair for a DPS spec to be able to dispel all that? as much as you like playing as a dps/support class. You can support with offheals/shields grips sure.. life swap even.. but you can't just completely save your healer life abusing mass dispel, it's ridiculously game breaking.

Nerfing defensive MD will not kill shadowpriests and they will still be good, instead of OP.

You are clearly bias toward having such op ability and looking toward nerfing the wrong aspects. You should work for blizzard.

#88 Koratar

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

I would just like it to have an actual 'interruptable' cast time. Right now it's more like stun/blanket silence the shadow or he's going to get it off. Trying to interrupt the cast with the delay is just pure luck.

#89 wtfbro

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

can you just admit that you opened this thread because they're going to remove blanket cs from your class already?

#90 rtcinema

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

View PostConradical, on 22 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Did I miss anyone or has it only been shadow priests in favor of keeping MD as is?

Just like only people win-trading/selling rating with RBGs complained about keeping the 2200 requirement on T2 weapons.

But, back to MD, I like the idea of keeping it to Offensive only for shadow, removing it completely removes part of niche the priest class has when vs Pallys and Mages.

On a side topic, whatever happened to certain classes being more vulnerable to others.  Healers for example, Pallys/Shaman should have good survivability vs melee and priests/druids/monks vs casters.  Mages should beat wars, Wars should beat locks, etc...

Quote

"We're losing to shitters, doesnt that make us worse than shitters?."

"No, it makes the game unbalanced."

#91 rtcinema

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

It was the staple for why RMP and WLD worked.  You bring the caster to counter the melee and a melee to counter the caster as well as cc's on separate DRs.

Quote

"We're losing to shitters, doesnt that make us worse than shitters?."

"No, it makes the game unbalanced."

#92 Galaleo

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

View PostApsco60, on 22 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Take away life swap. Its way too friggin powerful alongside the other defensive cooldowns and utilities that shadow brings. MD is just spammable. The cast should be at least half a sec so we can interrupt it plus, a slightly longer cooldown. In conclusion they need to nerf either MD or take lifeswap out for shadow.

P.S - in 5s shadow priests are the biggest pricks

Ill trade you MD all together (literally take if out of the spell book) for a longer CD on scatter traps.

#93 wtfbro

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

inb4 another mage opening a thread whining about how op prayer of mending/shield is and how it should be removed from sp lolol

#94 Galaleo

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 22 January 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Can make exactly the same argument about Mage/Warlock silence effects



No but they are currently by far the best caster, or are u going to argue with that like you argue with everything else xd
I would argue mage is still best. In no way are spriest "by far the best caster". Case could be made that they are the best, but by far?

View Postdjp771133, on 22 January 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

md is overpowered and you guys know it.
:warrior:

View PostConradical, on 22 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Did I miss anyone or has it only been shadow priests in favor of keeping MD as is?
No offence, but I watching you play spriest makes me want to buff them.

* jk man.

Edited by Galaleo, 22 January 2013 - 10:31 PM.


#95 Djandawg

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:46 PM

View PostMaticzor, on 22 January 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Dude fade is fine, immunity to spells doesn't mean you can't get shockwaved or dragon breath or rof.. deep swap wont be used when u are immune to spells for 3 sec.. the fact that you are able to ruin a killing opportunity in deepfreeze by mass dispelling it is retarded.

Sure you can peel for deep, you can off heal or w/e. But you shouldn't be able to dispel the effect as a DPS spec. Deep is 30 sec cd and probably the only way mages can get real burst going on.

Stop trying to move the radar away, the main issue here is Mass Dispel, I'm gonna do a little comparison.
(feel free to add what I missed)

Tremor: Fears
Decurse: Hex

Now let's take a look at Mass dispel.
Dispels magic in a 15 yard radius, removing ----> all <--- harmful spells from each friendly target and 1 beneficial spells from each enemy target.

Mass Dispel: Repentance, Polymorph, Ring of Frost, Hammer of Justice, Freezing Trap, Fears, Hibernate, Blinding light, Deepfreeze, Dragonbreath, Entangling Root, Frost Nova and the list goes on..

Also while dispelling the cc, you dispel dots such as Frost Bomb, Haunt ..etc

You see the difference? Do you think its fair for a DPS spec to be able to dispel all that? as much as you like playing as a dps/support class. You can support with offheals/shields grips sure.. life swap even.. but you can't just completely save your healer life abusing mass dispel, it's ridiculously game breaking.

Nerfing defensive MD will not kill shadowpriests and they will still be good, instead of OP.

You are clearly bias toward having such op ability and looking toward nerfing the wrong aspects. You should work for blizzard.
See you make assumptions about bias, the thing is, just like most people who didn't reroll, I only respecced for 4 months. I will play discipline, meaning that I will never play with a shadowpriest, I will play against them, so it benefits me more on the long run but this thread is not about me.

Adding more and more unbelievably powerful abilities and removing abilities that defined classes is destroying the game. That is one of the reasons why most crowded bgs are awarding 23 gladiator spots. They are raping signature things about classes, for example the new dispel system, one class being able to double debuff dispel turned into a system where everyone can dispel all magic debuffs but only some healers will dispel hex. Additionally removal of manaburn, recently improved cs, cyclone dr etc, are all destroying core class abilities and classes lose their uniqueness.
So what I am saying is , they can and should find ways to fix classes that are too strong without removing abilities that have been there for years. My opinion is, it should not remove all debuffs, they can probably nerf phantasm and voidshift.
Also I appreciate the list of magic cc you provided that a dispel effect can remove, and your comparison list coincidentally didn't include Bop. It will almost guarantee that a ret paladin's healer will not get blinded or warrior feared, it will also get you out of redirect kidney, sap , scatter etc(not going for the full list). One can argue that it's a longer cooldown even with double bop/forbearance  but it also makes you immune to physical dmg and physical interrupts so it's kind of justified.

Edited by Djandawg, 22 January 2013 - 10:49 PM.


#96

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:29 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

See you make assumptions about bias, the thing is, just like most people who didn't reroll, I only respecced for 4 months. I will play discipline, meaning that I will never play with a shadowpriest, I will play against them, so it benefits me more on the long run but this thread is not about me.

Adding more and more unbelievably powerful abilities and removing abilities that defined classes is destroying the game. That is one of the reasons why most crowded bgs are awarding 23 gladiator spots. They are raping signature things about classes, for example the new dispel system, one class being able to double debuff dispel turned into a system where everyone can dispel all magic debuffs but only some healers will dispel hex. Additionally removal of manaburn, recently improved cs, cyclone dr etc, are all destroying core class abilities and classes lose their uniqueness.
So what I am saying is , they can and should find ways to fix classes that are too strong without removing abilities that have been there for years. My opinion is, it should not remove all debuffs, they can probably nerf phantasm and voidshift.
Also I appreciate the list of magic cc you provided that a dispel effect can remove, and your comparison list coincidentally didn't include Bop. It will almost guarantee that a ret paladin's healer will not get blinded or warrior feared, it will also get you out of redirect kidney, sap , scatter etc(not going for the full list). One can argue that it's a longer cooldown even with double bop/forbearance  but it also makes you immune to physical dmg and physical interrupts so it's kind of justified.

Lol arena participation hasn't declined because of the removal of signature abilities, it's declined because of absurdly broken and terrible balance, along with easier pve. As terrible as the beginning of s12 was, imagine if it was your first time arenaing, imagine if your first time stepping into arena a warrior or hunter killed you instantly, that puts off new people, and turned away a hell of a lot of old people.

They need to low the starting mmr to 1000 or lower at this point, everyone at 1500 is fully geared and new players probably have to lose 40 games in a row before they can start enjoying it.

Edited by Radejjj, 22 January 2013 - 11:32 PM.


#97 Conradical

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:34 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 22 January 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

They need to low the starting mmr to 1000 or lower at this point, everyone at 1500 is fully geared and new players probably have to lose 40 games in a row before they can start enjoying it.

Even old players that just leveled. MMR not resetting on new 90s seems so strange to me. I was playing with a friend's recent 90 last night and we seriously spam left games up to 39 losses, down to 1300 MMR, and STILL fought hunters/warriors with 484 avg. ilvl.

Edited by Conradical, 22 January 2013 - 11:35 PM.


#98

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

View PostConradical, on 22 January 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

Even old players that just leveled. MMR not resetting on new 90s seems so strange to me. I was playing with a friend's recent 90 last night and we seriously spam left games up to 39 losses, down to 1300 MMR, and STILL fought hunters/warriors with 484 avg. ilvl.

I honestly think that's one of, if not the biggest reason for the decline in arena participation. While obviously a lot of people have quit arena, I really cant imagine that many getting into it for the first time right now and enjoying it. Like you said, even multi glad players have to tank 40 games just to start to compete, but atleast you know it gets better (kind of) eventually, while someone new arena's for the first time and they just get demolished repeatedly and than never bother with it again.

Edited by Radejjj, 22 January 2013 - 11:52 PM.


#99 Theles

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:54 AM

View PostConradical, on 22 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Did I miss anyone or has it only been shadow priests in favor of keeping MD as is?
Make thread about any ability and I'd guess you only see the people who play the class defending it.

But yeah remove the glyph and make it a longer cd, or just make it remove 1 buff.
I wanna play with InnerFire glyph anyway

Edited by Theles, 23 January 2013 - 12:54 AM.


#100 Hyrmine

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:41 AM

Yeah, everyone at 1k mmr has 400k+ health and pretty much full Malevolent gear. It's awful to play when you're newly dinged in your blues and got 350k~ health.




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