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SP Mass Dispeling CC.. Too good?


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#61 dionim

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

View Postsaffie, on 22 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I'm sorry what do warlocks have as instant cast that damage pretty good? What about ele shamans? No passive damage reduction for them either, needless to say no md. Defending you need MD vs cleaves because they are too good is wrong. They should be (are getting) nerfed, and sps should be on par with other casters.

i agree that MD need a nerf for sure
i just dont see what SP damage have to do about it

we only have sw:pain as instant, the others requires a cast to proc or to be used.

im disc and i dont know much about warlocks, but i dont see they casting much often, for cc or damage, not saying that they are good, just saying that all casters doenst cast now days.

i agree with you when you say that almost every comp would like a spriest over another caster, i just dont see our damage being why they bring us.

Edited by dionim, 22 January 2013 - 04:35 PM.


#62 Sycn

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:41 PM

Remove (Shadow) Mass Dispel and redesign Void Shift since it's a trainable ability.

Edited by Sycn, 22 January 2013 - 04:41 PM.


#63 Djandawg

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

View Postsaffie, on 22 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

I'm sorry what do warlocks have as instant cast that damage pretty good? What about ele shamans? No passive damage reduction for them either, needless to say no md. Defending you need MD vs cleaves because they are too good is wrong. They should be (are getting) nerfed, and sps should be on par with other casters.
Sorry but who decides what is on par with others? Every caster has their own strengths and weaknesses. Shadowpriest is not an s5 dk or s12 warrior that has the tools to render useless both melees and casters both in defense and offense.

Massdispel is a core shadowpriest spell, it is one of the reasons why people play this class and it has never been a problematic component. The tools gained this expansion are making everything else look over the top. Short cd Fade spell immunity is just too good for shadow, so is void shift because as I mentioned above , it is designed to put you in danger but as shadow you are always safe, so you practically have a half LoH as dps.

Edited by Djandawg, 22 January 2013 - 04:49 PM.


#64 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Massdispel is a core shadowpriest spell, it is one of the reasons why people play this class and it has never been a problematic component. The tools gained this expansion are making everything else look over the top.

Can make exactly the same argument about Mage/Warlock silence effects

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:


Sorry but who decides what is on par with others? Every caster has their own strengths and weaknesses. Shadowpriest is not an s5 dk or s12 warrior that has the tools to render useless both melees and casters both in defense and offence

No but they are currently by far the best caster, or are u going to argue with that like you argue with everything else xd

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 22 January 2013 - 04:53 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#65 Djandawg

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 22 January 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Can make exactly the same argument about Mage/Warlock silence effects
Yes and I agree, they should never nerf cs, it's a horrible mistake.

#66 saffie

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:33 PM

View Postdionim, on 22 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

i agree that MD need a nerf for sure
i just dont see what SP damage have to do about it

we only have sw:pain as instant, the others requires a cast to proc or to be used.

im disc and i dont know much about warlocks, but i dont see they casting much often, for cc or damage, not saying that they are good, just saying that all casters doenst cast now days.

i agree with you when you say that almost every comp would like a spriest over another caster, i just dont see our damage being why they bring us.

Affliction warlock dps is only about casting, plain dots tickle by themselves unless u haunt and malefic grasp, and channeling a spell is harder than casting a 1.3 sec cast spell that crits for 120k. SP damage is really good, you shouldn't have the whole package, if you dont want to give up your damage you have to sacrifise your survivibility or your assist abilities for your healer.

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

Sorry but who decides what is on par with others? Every caster has their own strengths and weaknesses. Shadowpriest is not an s5 dk or s12 warrior that has the tools to render useless both melees and casters both in defense and offense.

Massdispel is a core shadowpriest spell, it is one of the reasons why people play this class and it has never been a problematic component. The tools gained this expansion are making everything else look over the top. Short cd Fade spell immunity is just too good for shadow, so is void shift because as I mentioned above , it is designed to put you in danger but as shadow you are always safe, so you practically have a half LoH as dps.

Even talbadar himself is saying MD is over the top as it is, taking every spell effect on your healer for an almost instant cast with 10 sec cd. While every other class has to pop their defensive cds when a hunter traps their healer a mere md makes it ok that they didn't even bother eating the trap, or even rewards them on making mistakes positioning. Don't talk about "why it was okay before but this expansion everyones whining about md" when dispelling and ccs go this is a complete different game than it was in the past expansions, thats why people are being upset about md, its mostly in the wow arena metagame sps seem to have literally everything from high damage, to great survivilibility to acting like a second healer.

#67 Pankakez

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:46 PM

I dont think they should just drop the spell completely, they should give us something in exchange thats worth using. I would honestly like it if they made our damage less about procs and gave us archangel back was a fun CD to play with!
......

#68 phishy

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

spriests are op but...

with all the calls for nerf this nerf that about x class because y class doesnt have it, classes are just getting more and more homogenized to the point where there isn't much separating them. i understand that balance is important, but it's getting to the point now where the only distinct way to tell how good a class is is by their burst dmg output or # of instant cc's they have

#69 Djandawg

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

View Postsaffie, on 22 January 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:


Even talbadar himself is saying MD is over the top as it is, taking every spell effect on your healer for an almost instant cast with 10 sec cd. While every other class has to pop their defensive cds when a hunter traps their healer a mere md makes it ok that they didn't even bother eating the trap, or even rewards them on making mistakes positioning. Don't talk about "why it was okay before but this expansion everyones whining about md" when dispelling and ccs go this is a complete different game than it was in the past expansions, thats why people are being upset about md, its mostly in the wow arena metagame sps seem to have literally everything from high damage, to great survivilibility to acting like a second healer.

Basically agreeing that shadowpriest needs some changes while disagreeing that massdispel removal from sp is wrong because Talbadar says so? I strongly believe that 3 second spell immunity of Fade and Voidshift for shadow are bigger issues.

Also, you should have an understanding of things  you are going full berserk against for 4 pages. Md is not an 10 sec cd, it's 15. It's not a tiny mistake like saying 4 instead of 5 , you are wrong by %50(5 seconds) here. Any 2.2k+ kfc will silence you during scatter or if you faded, you'll get shockwaved. So  it's not like, lol  my healer can jump around freely because I can md all day.You are right about one thing though, sp md removing all debuffs is just too much.

#70 Theed

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

View PostChancesz, on 22 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

it's a very tricky situation. if you nerf shadowpriests the following things will happen:

-resto druids become VERY weak
-KFC wins every game
^this..
also just removing is a very lazy and bad nerf.. increase cd to whatever or increase cast time would be a much better change. Don't know about void shift. Maybe a shared cooldown on something? Or a debuff which prevents healing for x seconds.

Removing is just bad and i hope will never happen.

#71 Maticzor

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Basically agreeing that shadowpriest needs some changes while disagreeing that massdispel removal from sp is wrong because Talbadar says so? I strongly believe that 3 second spell immunity of Fade and Voidshift for shadow are bigger issues.

Also, you should have an understanding of things  you are going full berserk against for 4 pages. Md is not an 10 sec cd, it's 15. It's not a tiny mistake like saying 4 instead of 5 , you are wrong by %50(5 seconds) here. Any 2.2k+ kfc will silence you during scatter or if you faded, you'll get shockwaved. So  it's not like, lol  my healer can jump around freely because I can md all day.You are right about one thing though, sp md removing all debuffs is just too much.
A DPS spec shouldn't be able dispel magic of their healers. its just TOO MUCH.. 3 sec spell immunity.. WOW thats a HUUUUUUGE problem, for a WHOLE 3 seconds you are immune to spells.. Damn thats so gamebreaking.. Stop trying to cover up for Mass Dispel, just because you like Mass Dispeling shit and you dont want to see it gone. void shift is good but without it no one is gonna play with SP. Even if you give MD 1 min CD it will still be good, you shouldn't be able to carry your healer's mistake, and KFC is not the only comp around, so don't build your arguement around one comp. It's just something that shouldv been done to the game long time ago, no DPS spec should be able to dispel magic from their parnters.

#72 rtcinema

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostMaticzor, on 22 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

no DPS spec should be able to dispel magic from their parnters.

By this logic dps druids/shamans and mages shouldn't be able to decurse hex as well.  DKs shouldn't be able to frenzy their healer making them immune to cc's that break on damage (not sure if that still works like that).  Lock's shouldn't be able to have pets that dispel cc or that one ability that breaks them out.

Quote

"We're losing to shitters, doesnt that make us worse than shitters?."

"No, it makes the game unbalanced."

#73 Theed

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:21 PM

View Postrtcinema, on 22 January 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

By this logic dps druids/shamans and mages shouldn't be able to decurse hex as well.  DKs shouldn't be able to frenzy their healer making them immune to cc's that break on damage (not sure if that still works like that).  Lock's shouldn't be able to have pets that dispel cc or that one ability that breaks them out.
and ele/enh should not have tremor and rets not have bop ..

#74 Hyrmine

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

Pretty tired of soul swap.

#75 djp771133

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

md is overpowered and you guys know it.

#76 Djandawg

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

View PostMaticzor, on 22 January 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

A DPS spec shouldn't be able dispel magic of their healers. its just TOO MUCH.. 3 sec spell immunity.. WOW thats a HUUUUUUGE problem, for a WHOLE 3 seconds you are immune to spells.. Damn thats so gamebreaking..
You're trying to make a point in your childish sarco-spastic way but it's true. It is a huge problem. I will give you a few examples, if you still can't process it, you can pm me, I will send you some extra scenarios until you get it.
-You wanna deep swap with cc on sp, jk sp is immune to spells, deep/bomb massdispelled.
-You get low vs spell cleave, you don't die because you just are immune %10 of the time.

As for your  final gem:"no DPS spec should be able to dispel magic from their parnters."

Sure buddy, we will remove tremor(30 sec cd) / decurse from dps shamans, decurse from mages and dps druids, we will also implement a new bop, called Mop(named after a bright young poster called Matic) , it will not break your partner's blind and intim shout anymore, same way a MoF that will not dispel entangling roots.

#77

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

View Postrtcinema, on 22 January 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

By this logic dps druids/shamans and mages shouldn't be able to decurse hex as well.  DKs shouldn't be able to frenzy their healer making them immune to cc's that break on damage (not sure if that still works like that).  Lock's shouldn't be able to have pets that dispel cc or that one ability that breaks them out.


View PostTheed, on 22 January 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

and ele/enh should not have tremor and rets not have bop ..

The difference is these things are limited in what they offer. They counter very few things individually, while Mass Dispel can be used on almost everything, offensively and defensively. Additionally, most of those abilities have long cooldowns or some kind of drawback, tremor is the only thing comparable which I think most people agree needs to be nerfed.

Edited by Radejjj, 22 January 2013 - 07:39 PM.


#78 wtfbro

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:40 PM

with all you retards asking blizzard to remove every single ability from the game (OMG MAGE DOESNT HAVE BLANKET ANYMORE QQ WHY DOES SPRIEST AND HUNTER HAVE IT STILL??????? PLZ REMOVE BLIZZ!!!!!1111) in a year from now, wow will become like fucking LoL where u have 4 abilities and thats it

#79 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostTheed, on 22 January 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

and ele/enh should not have tremor

View PostRadejjj, on 22 January 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

The difference is these things are limited in what they offer. They counter very few things individually

rofl

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 22 January 2013 - 07:57 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#80 Conradical

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:03 PM

Did I miss anyone or has it only been shadow priests in favor of keeping MD as is?




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