Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help

SP Mass Dispeling CC.. Too good?


  • Please log in to reply
155 replies to this topic

#21 Coldizzle

Coldizzle
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Nemesis
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 203
  • Talents: Frost 0/0/0/2/1/2
  • 2v2: 1245
  • 3v3: 2285
  • RBG: 2003

Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

priests can stack alot of ic procs too
DP mindblast mindspike(2x) mindblast again and maybe you lucky and get more insta procs,
5 gcd insta casts who do arround 30k/45k each without crits and also have dots. :(

Edited by Coldizzle, 22 January 2013 - 12:10 PM.


#22 Dizzeeyo

Dizzeeyo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 1716
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/2/2
  • RBG: 2274

Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

View PostHiddenstalke, on 22 January 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:



They leave Spriest/Dk silence aswell? + they increase cd on silence shot by 4 sec or so and the point of silence shot is to silence target - Spell lock/Counterspell sounds more like thing that interrupts but not blanketing. And our shot doesn't really lock cast( ok i think it does but its same durotation as the blanket?).

Sp and dk silence both have long enough cooldowns to not be used as a blanket instant cc rotation every time dr ends, plus spriests and dks don't have 101 other ways of instantly ccing targets, or an ability that resets the cooldowns on all of their cc abilities, not really the same is it :)

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#23 Djandawg

Djandawg
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Genjuros
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 1026
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

View PostRadejjj, on 22 January 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

They should remove the mass dispel glyph, especially with blanket silences being removed, it will be utterly impossible to stop mass dispels.
People need to stop asking for removal of core abilities that define the class simply because that ability is strong against their class. Arena isn't 1v1.

Edited by Djandawg, 22 January 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#24 Djandawg

Djandawg
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Genjuros
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 1026
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

View Postmethodman2, on 22 January 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

should just allow disc priests to have swap, it would make them great as well as toning down SPs abit.
Lifeswap as disc is a joke. Someone goes down to %10  in a scatter because let's face it, disc doesn't have a healing cooldown, so you end up  lifeswapping, you get charged and die 1 second before warbringer ends.
But actually it's true that lifeswap is too good with disperse, removal from shadowpriest or cd dr sharing with disperse are both valid solutions.

Also some clueless plate monkeys don't realize because they are drooling smashing buttons and reading damage numbers but you have infinite stuns and interrupts(yes it's possible when you have 2 monkeys causing disgusting pushback), it's easy to prevent an md.

Edited by Djandawg, 22 January 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#25 dionim

dionim
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Arthas
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 506
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/0/1/2/1
  • 2v2: 883

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:18 PM

View PostColdizzle, on 22 January 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

priests can stack alot of ic procs too
DP mindblast mindspike(2x) mindblast again and maybe you lucky and get more insta procs,
5 gcd insta casts who do arround 30k/45k each without crits and also have dots. :(

have you read the tittle of this topic?

all that damage takes more time than the duration of the priest silence, have more setup than any other class damage, and will almost NEVER crit cuz we have 10% crit.
lets compare to 3 gcd for icelances doing 60k each, 1 gcd for ffb doing 70k, 1 gcd for frozen orb that does 100k+ if the target stays in range for full duration, plus a deep with no GCD and a blanket with no GCD.

they could remove shadow swap, but lower disperse cd by 30 or 45 seconds.

that way we lose support but still keep good defensive cd

Edited by dionim, 22 January 2013 - 12:22 PM.


#26 Dizzeeyo

Dizzeeyo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 1716
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/2/2
  • RBG: 2274

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:30 PM

View Postdionim, on 22 January 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:



have you read the tittle of this topic?

all that damage takes more time than the duration of the priest silence, have more setup than any other class damage, and will almost NEVER crit cuz we have 10% crit.
lets compare to 3 gcd for icelances doing 60k each, 1 gcd for ffb doing 70k, 1 gcd for frozen orb that does 100k+ if the target stays in range for full duration, plus a deep with no GCD and a blanket with no GCD.
Ah that explains why Mage healer x is so much better represented then sp healer x :D

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

Also some clueless plate monkeys don't realize because they are drooling smashing buttons and reading damage numbers but you have infinite stuns and interrupts(yes it's possible when you have 2 monkeys causing disgusting pushback), it's easy to prevent an md.

Can't disagree with this tho

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 22 January 2013 - 12:32 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#27 dionim

dionim
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Arthas
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 506
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/0/1/2/1
  • 2v2: 883

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 22 January 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Ah that explains why Mage healer x is so much better represented then sp healer x :D

nop, because shadowpriest is good not because its damage, but because the support tools he bring
anyway i should just ignore the guy crying about shadowpriest insta procs and being a mage.

shadowpriest need the support he brings to be lowered
but at the same time they cant nerf his defensives for himself.

Edited by dionim, 22 January 2013 - 12:39 PM.


#28 Icekingx

Icekingx
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Area 52
  • Retaliation
  • Posts: 973
  • Talents: Frost 1/1/0/2/0/2
  • RBG: 2351

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:40 PM

Life swap is a really strong spell over all just like tremor is really strong for something like 5s most teams run SP/Rshaman in 5s. I think how long life swaps CD is fair enough don't really believe that it needs a nerf. Don't think grip is to OP just another good thing for the class I mean DK has 2 grips why can't a SP have 1? As for MD not 100% what they could do to nerf it..maybe increase the mana cost for shadow or it can only be used for offensive or defensive use only?

Rawrbertlol, on 14 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Best signatures on entire website.
Posted Image

#29 Guest_Talbadar_*

Guest_Talbadar_*

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:42 PM

Said it before: defensive MD is too strong right now and will be stronger next patch. Spriests are a top spec and will be among the top 3 next patch. By ONLY taking away MD spriests will be a fair fight and be more fun to play against. Void Shift is fine. People generally complain about Void Shift not because it's unfair, but because it's annoying and they wanted their target dead and oh no he didn't die. It is a necessary spell to have. Especially now that MD removes everything off your party, it doesn't have a good spot in PvP. I feel like it's clunky for healy Priests to use defensively as well, but they need that for raiding so whatever.

#30 Doggiedawgz

Doggiedawgz
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Aegwynn
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 27
  • Talents: Discipline 1/2/0/0/1/2
  • RBG: 2196

Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:50 PM

too much crying , remove MD for SP's and get better jesus christ.

#31 Cyanne

Cyanne
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Neptulon
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 351
  • Talents: Assassination
  • RBG: 768

Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

As i said countless times: how about instead of removing interesting utility skills that can be "out-played" (like cross cc-ing to prevent a md) we give them to more classes and nerf the mongoloid mechanics / skills / burst? And that includes healing too.


Imo just reduces crits to +50% and buff sustained dmg/healing to make up for it. No more of "i got 3 crits in a row.. UNHEALABLE dmg" or "i got 2 crits out of a cc you're full hp"

Edited by Cyanne, 22 January 2013 - 01:00 PM.


#32 miShaqt

miShaqt
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 40
  • Talents: Combat 2/2/1/1/0/2
  • RBG: 2274

Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

Mage tears, can't have enough of them...

#33 wtfbro

wtfbro
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Crushridge
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 281
  • Talents: Shadow 1/2/0/1/2/.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

why wasn't anybody complaining on how retardedly op spriest was back in wrath when they could SPAM dispel magic on friendly targets removing 2 debuffs each global? why did MD become so overpowered all of a sudden? pls explain k tnx

#34 Djandawg

Djandawg
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Genjuros
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 1026
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:48 PM

View PostTalbadar, on 22 January 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Said it before: defensive MD is too strong right now and will be stronger next patch. Spriests are a top spec and will be among the top 3 next patch. By ONLY taking away MD spriests will be a fair fight and be more fun to play against. Void Shift is fine. People generally complain about Void Shift not because it's unfair, but because it's annoying and they wanted their target dead and oh no he didn't die. It is a necessary spell to have. Especially now that MD removes everything off your party, it doesn't have a good spot in PvP. I feel like it's clunky for healy Priests to use defensively as well, but they need that for raiding so whatever.

Exact opposite and I think you described everything wrong here:

-Voidshift is not annoying, it's unfair because it's a healer ability. It is designed to put yourself at risk when you use it. As shadowpriest, you can invis / fade depending on what you face and get healed, worst case, you disperse so there is no risk as opposed to a disc priest that has a very good chance of getting killed when he lifeswaps.
-15 second cd and 40k mana is enough punishment, it's not like, lol I dispelled 2 sheeps, now I am dispelling fear. Every class gained tons of instant cc this expansion, 7 out of 10 teams on the ladder are KFC, I guarantee you that all healers/shadowpriests would prefer losing pw: shield instead of md. That's how important it is and in most fights it's the sole reason you bring a shadowpriest.

Sin and punishment DRs with itself and when you are tunneled by a warrior + another physical dps and your dots are dispelled, you do literally 0 damage because a) you don't have a casting window b ) you don't get procs because of dispels, so in reality , when you don't dispel stuff like hoj/trap etc you don't bring anything to the game.

Edited by Djandawg, 22 January 2013 - 01:52 PM.


#35 Conradical

Conradical
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Garona
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 1586
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/2/0/2/.

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

View Postwtfbro, on 22 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

why wasn't anybody complaining on how retardedly op spriest was back in wrath when they could SPAM dispel magic on friendly targets removing 2 debuffs each global? why did MD become so overpowered all of a sudden? pls explain k tnx

Good shadow priests have always thought that being able to dispel their teammates was a little too strong, but this expansion you are guaranteed to get the main CC on your teammate because all magic debuffs are removed in a single .75 second cast.

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

I guarantee you that all healers/shadowpriests would prefer losing pw: shield instead of md.

Shouldn't this speak volumes of this ability then?

Edited by Conradical, 22 January 2013 - 02:02 PM.


#36 Guest_Talbadar_*

Guest_Talbadar_*

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

View Postwtfbro, on 22 January 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

why wasn't anybody complaining on how retardedly op spriest was back in wrath when they could SPAM dispel magic on friendly targets removing 2 debuffs each global? why did MD become so overpowered all of a sudden? pls explain k tnx
In Wrath, Spriests weren't good till Season 7/8. In those seasons, Mages/Warlocks (main magical CC classes) had a lot of haste, and Poly/Fear had a base cast time of 1.3 seconds. Druids and Shamans (main healers spriests played with) did not have dispel magic, so cross dispelling was not possible. Was fine for Spriests to have it then.

Season 9 - Spriests had teammate dispel. It was, to me, Spriests strongest moment in the game. You could play with a Druid or Shaman and have access to cross dispel. It felt near impossible to lose no matter what DPS spec I was playing with. I had 3 priests with rank 1 at the time with < 10 losses on each team. It was just not fair and was nerfed in the middle of that season.

Season 12 - The cast time on ALL CC has been increased to 1.7 seconds, and Mages/Warlocks are not among the top classes right now. The only argument for having MD would be to stop an instant CC chain on the healer. Let me break it down by class.

If a Mage/Warlock casts a Fear/Poly on a healer and it successfully lands, they deserve it (keep in mind Blood Fear changes next patch).

Mage: Polymorph, Ring of Frost, (PoM + Ring/Poly), Novas, Deep Freeze
Casted RoFs and Polys should have a rewarding feeling when landed on a healer. PoM has a minute and a half cooldown. I don't think that's reason enough to have cross dispel for it. Yeah, Deep Freeze is the main ability you want to dispel, but Shield Grip PoM also work wonders against that ability.

Warlock: Fear, Howl, Coil, Shadowfury
Not seeing a good reason to need cross dispel here.

Hunter: Trap
The mini-game of trying to take the trap for someone and trying to place the trap so that can't happen is fun. Being able to MD it is overkill.

Priests: Psychic Scream, Psychic Terror, Psychic Horror, Silence
Don't see a need to MD any of these, even though Psyfiend can be annoying.

Paladin: HoJ, Repentence, Blinding Light
Hoj is annoying and is one of those ones MD is fun to have for, but Repentence should be rewarding to land, and Blinding Light has a cast time next patch for Holy so you don't need to stop the 20 second Pally CC chain.

Druid/Shaman/DK: Eroot, Faerie Fire, Capacitor stun, Strangulate, Soul Reaper
Obviously not necessary.

#37 saffie

saffie
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 1089
  • Talents: Destruction 0/1/2/0/2/1
  • RBG: 2112

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:20 PM

View PostApplejackxD, on 22 January 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

People wanna remove Void Shift and Mass Dispel... Then why would anyone pick a SP over a lock?

Leaving as it is, why would anyone pick lock over SP? Even if voidshift and md were nerfed/removed you would still have great damage and great survivibility on top of assist healers better than any other class can. Its overkill to say if md and vs would get nerfed suddenly warlocks would be so much better than sps.

MD has to get at least 1 min cd for sp, and using void shift should put dispersion on cd, so switching to the priest will actually mean something, not go immortal mode fade, spectral guise, dispersion after a life swap.

Edited by saffie, 22 January 2013 - 02:27 PM.


#38 Guest_Talbadar_*

Guest_Talbadar_*

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:31 PM

View Postsaffie, on 22 January 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

MD has to get at least 1 min cd for sp, and using void shift should put dispersion on cd, so switching to the priest will actually mean something, not go immortal mode fade, spectral guise, dispersion after a life swap.
I've considered solutions like putting Dispersion on a cooldown when Void Shift is used, but I have seen countless times where the Priest life swaps and all the enemy team has to do is keep training the target that was low, not swap to the Spriest. Not enough people try that, and end up losing time going after the player will full defenses left just because it "feels" right to go after them. Even when the Spriest is low and life swaps with anyone on their team - if they have full defenses they are likely not going to die. So, the problem exists not only when the Priest swaps health with a low partner, but when a low health Priest swaps health with their partner.

#39 Keiret

Keiret
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Al'Akir
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 433
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

How about a nerf to burst(from proccs mainly) instead of support abilities? If a class/spec is too strong, everyone immediately looks at what stands out the most for each class/spec for an obvious answer. If blizzard followed this while balancing we would end up with boring generic playstyles to each class/spec.

#40 Guest_Talbadar_*

Guest_Talbadar_*

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:42 PM

View PostKeiret, on 22 January 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

How about a nerf to burst(from proccs mainly) instead of support abilities? If a class/spec is too strong, everyone immediately looks at what stands out the most for each class/spec for an obvious answer. If blizzard followed this while balancing we would end up with boring generic playstyles to each class/spec.
Because Spriest burst is not an issue. Shadowfiend + 3 orb plague with DoTs and procs is a lot of damage, but requires set up time and you can easily monitor the damage you are going to be taking. Devouring Plague damage without on use trinket + fiend is not scary.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<