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SP Mass Dispeling CC.. Too good?


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#101 Nadagast

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:58 AM

MMR should start at 0 for fresh 90s

#102 rtcinema

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:36 AM

Whatever happened to making random bgs queue people together based on similar gear they mentioned at some point in tbc?  Why not implement something like that for arenas?  Or have skirmish league you can queue into if you have less than 470ish iL total to get use to playing your class and such?  It could always be adjusted as needed seeing as it would rule out PVErs and only work for fresh 90s who want to PVP.

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#103 Nightmonkey

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:03 AM

I'm honestly shocked and amazed that Blizzard hasn't touched Shadow Priest utility in 5.2.  It's almost like you can put a Shadow Priest into just about any team and magically that team is 5x harder to kill.  Shadow Priests are so strong in the utility department that they can make up for other class' shortcomings.

Let's just talk about all the amazing personal defensive abilities, unparalleled team utility, and strong damage that they bring to the table. They need a nerf.  They are currently so far ahead of any other hybrid class in terms of everything I just listed that it's just insane that they've been left alone for 5.2 so far.

MD would be a good place to start looking at for nerfs.  They are such a well rounded spec to the point where they don't really have any glaring weaknesses.  There is no trade off for how good their utility is.  That shouldn't be the case.

#104 ROKMODE

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:24 AM

I don't know about balance-wise, but shadow priests are supposed to be able to do a little bit of everything and automatically make a team better. It's how their design works. Removing mass dispel would be a bad idea even if it's unfair. It's a core mechanic, and blizzard has homogenized enough as it is. They should work on the other stupid added abilities if that is an issue.
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#105 Maticzor

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:24 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 22 January 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

See you make assumptions about bias, the thing is, just like most people who didn't reroll, I only respecced for 4 months. I will play discipline, meaning that I will never play with a shadowpriest, I will play against them, so it benefits me more on the long run but this thread is not about me.

Adding more and more unbelievably powerful abilities and removing abilities that defined classes is destroying the game. That is one of the reasons why most crowded bgs are awarding 23 gladiator spots. They are raping signature things about classes, for example the new dispel system, one class being able to double debuff dispel turned into a system where everyone can dispel all magic debuffs but only some healers will dispel hex. Additionally removal of manaburn, recently improved cs, cyclone dr etc, are all destroying core class abilities and classes lose their uniqueness.
So what I am saying is , they can and should find ways to fix classes that are too strong without removing abilities that have been there for years. My opinion is, it should not remove all debuffs, they can probably nerf phantasm and voidshift.
Also I appreciate the list of magic cc you provided that a dispel effect can remove, and your comparison list coincidentally didn't include Bop. It will almost guarantee that a ret paladin's healer will not get blinded or warrior feared, it will also get you out of redirect kidney, sap , scatter etc(not going for the full list). One can argue that it's a longer cooldown even with double bop/forbearance  but it also makes you immune to physical dmg and physical interrupts so it's kind of justified.
Ret palas.. can't remember the last time I faced one in arena, but yeah its a fair arguement. Let's see.. Bop 5 min cd can be used once every min cuz it gives forbearance.. so 2 times in 2 min.. removes certain amount of abilities (defo not as much as MD)..  dispellable.
vs
Mass Dispel.. 15 sec cd.. can be used more than 10 times in an arena match.. doesn't apply any debuff so can be used freely.. Removes shitload of ccs and dots + dispeling offensively.

Hmm, if blizzard asked me to choose one of those 2 abilities to have it added to my class for free.. Definitely picking Mass Dispel. I bet you would too.

I agree that removing abilities that "defined" classes is not fun, sure no one want to see that happening, but since they started doing it and nerfed totem usage while silenced/imp cs/cyclone.. why they should stop now? .. I'm not a fan of revamping classes by removing their core abilities, but they are looking to fix stuff late as usual.. and people got used to playing with it. It's just one of those thing that they shouldv done long time ago but they didn't so people get mad becuz they loved the abilities that defined classes and what made them different. But if being different is too strong then it needs adjusting.  

Comparing abilities alone however, is not fair, you should also consider the class mechanics and strengths, and how viable it is, how many comps you can run, how is it doing in the ladder and I think priest is one of the best if not the best casters with good damage/survivability/support.. its like a super class.

Ret palas atm are garbage (I heard they are pretty op on PTR but thats another arguement and beside the point), they need bop, and even if MD gets nerfed and cant be used defensively and only offensively, shadow priests will still be at a better state than ret palas. Ofc if rets gets ridiculous then they should also get adjustment.

#106 Maticzor

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:41 AM

View PostROKMODE, on 23 January 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Removing mass dispel would be a bad idea even if it's unfair. It's a core mechanic.
So if its a core mechanic .. it shouldn't get removed? what happened to mana burn and drain mana which was there for 2 expansions? Mages always had a ward for 3 expansions, not anymore. Totems always been usable while silenced for 4 expansions, but now they removed that ability. Just because it's a core mechanic it doesn't justify the fact that it doesn't need to be removed. But no one is asking for total removal, everyone wants a nerf in the defensive aspect of MD.

#107 ROKMODE

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:53 AM

You completely missed my point. I'm not pro-homogenization. I think it's one of the worst things to happen to this game from a design standpoint. Why are you even bringing up that stuff. I never said I liked what they did. Removing mage wards is not even comparable to removing the defensive aspect of mass dispel. Defensive utility in the form of dispels is a niche for the shadowpriest, and it would be a bad idea to remove it or heavily nerf it when there are clearly other issues aside from it. If there is another route, they should take that one instead and leave MD be. That is all that I am saying. Since cataclysm, blizzard has taken the lazy way in balancing classes by homogenizing everyting. It's one reason I couldn't enjoy ele shaman in cata. I just disliked the fact that ele no longer had a large part of their team utility and were basically just a standard caster with tremor totem. In MOP, they tried to make everything artificially unique again but instead created a clusterfuck of stupid abilities. I don't see why those can't be dealt with before removing a class-defining thing like defensive dispelling from Shadowpriests.
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#108 Maticzor

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:21 AM

So u disliked what blizzard did to classes, welcome to the club of everyone. I disliked it also when they made cold snap not reset every frost ability, can't double deep anymore :< when clearly there was not a single complaint about it and all complaints were toward ice lance dmg.

The thing about MD, it just kills the fact that if you managed to cast poly on the healer, u wont get rewarded cuz it just get MD. It's like you try to build a sand castle, and when u finally managed to do it, the air just blows it away cuz it can. <-- dayum, so wise. The most annoying factor tho is MD deeps, it just counter mages so much that u have to blanket priests on every deep, but with blanket nerfs next season SP will be over the top.

#109 Coldizzle

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:35 AM

Greg Street@Ghostcrawler
@tevtev17 We're nerfing their healing. Trying to promote more discussion in the community about what the right fixes are.

probally getting nerfed soon.

Edited by Coldizzle, 23 January 2013 - 08:41 AM.


#110 Snackumz

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

buff warlocks

#111 Loveformoney

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:34 AM

MD is fine, leave the priests alone damn it.
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#112 Saikx

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

MD is the most broken shit ever and only Spriests that are dogshit at the game would defend this ability.

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#113 Draakex

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:24 AM

when MD was spammable, noone complained about it... and now with them already taken away the normal defensive-dispel, everyone is complaining? wtf?
i mean, you have 15 secs of free-cc that a spriest can't dispel once mass-dispel is cast... or you can just cc/blanket the priest

though i can understand that mages will complain even more about MD in 5.2 with their blank-cs gone...

why would anyone pick a priest in a team with MD gone? the defensive utility is what makes our spec (actually our class so far) worthwhile

Edited by Draakex, 23 January 2013 - 10:28 AM.

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#114 Saikx

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostDraakex, on 23 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

when MD was spammable, noone complained about it... and now with them already taken away the normal defensive-dispel, everyone is complaining? wtf?
i mean, you have 15 secs of free-cc that a spriest can't dispel once mass-dispel is cast... or you can just cc/blanket the priest

though i can understand that mages will complain even more about MD in 5.2 with their blank-cs gone...

why would anyone pick a priest in a team with MD gone? the defensive utility is what makes our spec (actually our class so far) worthwhile

Ye man your godtier spec will be completely useless when they take MD from you, rofl. People like you are the reason why they always fuck up PvP balance, they listen to the 99% that are dogshit at the game e.g. YOU and balance around them.

They should really change the posting requirements to 2,4k again.

Edited by Saikx, 23 January 2013 - 10:37 AM.

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#115 Draakex

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:37 AM

View PostSaikx, on 23 January 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Ye man your godtier spec will be completely useless when they take MD from you, rofl. People like you are the reason why they always fuck up PvP balance, they listen to the 99% that are dogshit at the game e.g. YOU and balance around them.

They should really up the posting requierement to 2,4k again.
thanks for the insult, much appreciated, kid

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#116 Saikx

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

View PostDraakex, on 23 January 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

thanks for the insult, much appreciated, kid

Only way to make someone like you understand how retarded your posts are, why should I argue with someone whos is horrible at the game and only has his own biased view and basically no insight into the game at all.

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#117 dionim

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostSaikx, on 23 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Only way to make someone like you understand how retarded your posts are, why should I argue with someone whos is horrible at the game and only has his own biased view and basically no insight into the game at all.

you only came here to say shit, can you please use your amazing skills at the game to tell us how can we balance the game?

#118 Apsco60

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:35 PM

MD + Shielding & Off Healing + Life Swap + Shadow Fart + Invis  They say you can't have your cake and eat it too. But, shadow priests own the factory. The class should have never achieved such a level of utility. Should just take out health swap for shadow and it would be fine. On top of that make md interrupt able, maybe + .25s on cast.

#119 wtfbro

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:54 PM

greg will certainly listen to you guys and remove it because he cares about your opinions and reads arena junkies as he stated in an interview some time ago














jk

Edited by wtfbro, 23 January 2013 - 02:54 PM.


#120 Isumi

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

View PostSaikx, on 23 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Only way to make someone like you understand how retarded your posts are, why should I argue with someone whos is horrible at the game and only has his own biased view and basically no insight into the game at all.


pls stay fat irl anton, you are such a big faggot it's unbelievable insulting everybody who does not agree with your opinion.




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