71 replies to this topic

[Nitric]

Numbtoes, on 18 February 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Base mana is 300,000 for mages. So each spell steal costs ~60k mana.

Oh. My fault, someone lied to me in-game then .

[Hackattack3]

Nitric, on 18 February 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

I'm just going to copy and paste my response in the other thread, as it's pretty much applicable to this post as well.



The only CC that has really changed is the addition of the Shale Spider's/Crane's non-casted CC (vs. the old Monkey blind that had a .5? second cast). We lose the same amount of damage as everyone else, arguably more if we have to use Scatter to trap (another global).

Please elaborate.  Losing a global doesn't sound that bad.

I feel that when 5.2 hits, hunters will lose the LEAST amount of dps while ccing.

[Hackattack3]

Kettu, on 16 January 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

What exactly makes one hunter spec more "skillful" or "unskillfull" than another one?

It has to do with the difficulty in pulling off an "act".  Check out Tosan's latest videos and see the setup required for MM+powershot burst, of course its absurd but it's one big pretty number, BM hunters have a much easier setup to burst and several small pretty numbers.

It's like diving.  I can do a straight dive or a 1 1/2.  I'm going in head first on both dives but one takes more still to pull off.

[Hackattack3]

Nitric, on 18 February 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

I'm confused. I've seen good disc priests live through KFC because their partners aren't garbage and know how to peel. I've also seen good priests teams beat KFC when the priest isn't getting trained because their partners aren't garbage and know how to go defensive against KFC.

Oh, you play with a Ret, the squishiest melee DPS. That makes sense.

I would like to get better at my current gameplay so please elaborate how to effectively "peel" vs KFC.  For a moment I would like to share the frustrations of playing vs KFC and trying to find a way to peel.

Option 1:  Stay close and kite together, this way you can LOS and sit traps.  j/k you are taking double and triple shockwaves and easy swaps on healer.

Option 2:  Spread out to avoid shockwaves and now healer eats full traps.

I would also like to remind you that not all comps have a nova and not all comps have spriest swap/off heals.


PS  My hunter is 1 bar from 87, good to hear there is at least a BM vs MM debate.

[Kettu]

Hackattack3, on 18 February 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

It has to do with the difficulty in pulling off an "act".  Check out Tosan's latest videos and see the setup required for MM+powershot burst, of course its absurd but it's one big pretty number, BM hunters have a much easier setup to burst and several small pretty numbers.

It's like diving.  I can do a straight dive or a 1 1/2.  I'm going in head first on both dives but one takes more skill to pull off.

So you are basicly trying to say that

as MM Powershot->instant Aimed shot->Chimera shot combo = skillfull

and as BM Powershot->blink strike->kill command combo = un-skillfull

Ty for your opinion : )

[Hackattack3]

Kettu, on 18 February 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

So you are basicly trying to say that

as MM Powershot->instant Aimed shot->Chimera shot combo = skillfull

and as BM Powershot->blink strike->kill command combo = un-skillfull

Ty for your opinion : )

If you interrupt powershot in both cases, which spec does more passive damage with pets and keeps some damage rolling?  Which spec is less vulnerable to LOS?  Would you agree that BM is a far less viable cc target than MM?

You are welcome : )

[Kettu]

Firstly, your arguments are terrible. They have nothing to do with how skillful a spec is or is not.

Hackattack3, on 18 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

If you interrupt powershot in both cases, which spec does more passive damage with pets and keeps some damage rolling?

BM pets do more damage than MM pets for obvious reasons. This doesn't have anything to do with skill.

Instant aimed shot + chimera shot vs blink strike + kill command. Your scenario isn't even realistic. If powershot gets interrupted, you're most likely cc'd. You can't use any of the said 4 skills when you are in cc. Unless you mean by 5k pet autohit dps as "keeping some damage rolling"

Hackattack3, on 18 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Which spec is less vulnerable to LOS?

MM spec is obviously more vulnerable to LOS. However, the skill-component, which we are discussing, is a matter of opinion. One could argue that because BM spec has a higher skill-cap on this matter, it's a more skillful spec. One could also argue, that because MM is a worse spec on this matter, it's the more skilled spec.

Hackattack3, on 18 February 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

Would you agree that BM is a far less viable cc target than MM?

Matter of opinion and has nothing to do with how skilled a said spec is. As MM your damage can be stopped by cc'ing you, after a certain amount of time the DRs will hit in.

As BM, your damage can be stopped in 2 different ways, either by cc'ing you or your pet. If you have spammable cc, I'd say BM is the more viable cc target as you can rotate cc on the hunter and the pet forever. In other cases, I'd say MM is the more viable cc target.


You've clearly got yourself stuck with the wotlk / cata mindset of "MM or GTFO" just like many others here.

TL:DR: BM is currently the spec with the higher skill-cap. However, MM is the worse spec; it's harder to get rating as MM than as BM. It's completely dependent on how you see "skill" as.

[Broxxy]

higher skill cap because you have to babysit an at times mentally handicap npc .Biggest turnoff for people that have hated relying on pets for so much when it was just utility tied to em.  But seriously ..I dont even know what higher skill cap means anymore. All in all two way different playstyles. But the fact remains the spec is forgiving . Yeah cc the hunter and or the pet. When the spec has more outs from cc than anything else. Great hunters at the top of the ladders that play the spec great still have an uphill battle with comps they meet. But the same hunters can make any spec that is the best work at the top playing againts the best. . You cant argue that more average players succeed with BM than any hunter spec before it , even after stampede. Even triple dps didnt graduate so many hunters into their first 2200 then this...

Edited by Broxxy, 18 February 2013 - 10:42 PM.

[Hackattack3]

Broxxy, on 18 February 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

higher skill cap because you have to babysit an at times mentally handicap npc .Biggest turnoff for people that have hated relying on pets for so much when it was just utility tied to em.  But seriously ..I dont even know what higher skill cap means anymore. All in all two way different playstyles. But the fact remains the spec is forgiving . Yeah cc the hunter and or the pet. When the spec has more outs from cc than anything else. Great hunters at the top of the ladders that play the spec great still have an uphill battle with comps they meet. But the same hunters can make any spec that is the best work at the top playing againts the best. . You cant argue that more average players succeed with BM than any hunter spec before it , even after stampede. Even triple dps didnt graduate so many hunters into their first 2200 then this...

Couldn't agree more.

When I hear "forgiving" describing a spec i don't exactly feel like it's rocket science.

There is no need for people to try to complicate the "skill" discussion and derail the thread with one of these skill cap, floor, ceiling debates.  I think most people agree where BM stands.

Kettux,

No need to take offense, if you enjoy BM then keep cleaving up, but don't romanticize the spec into something more than it is.


Off topic,

Broxxy brought up an interesting point, for people who have played KFC (BM) and triple dps last season.  Which was more mongo?

Edited by Hackattack3, 19 February 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[Kettu]

Hackattack3, on 19 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

There is no need for people to try to complicate the "skill" discussion and derail the thread with one of these skill cap, floor, ceiling debates.  I think most people agree where BM stands.

Kettux,

No need to take offense, if you enjoy BM then keep cleaving up, but don't romanticize the spec into something more than it is.

I am not taking offense. I am simply tired of seeing these "my spec is more skilled than yours LOL"-discussions for the 700th time. That shit is more of a duelist / rival thing, and the easiest way to spot bad players.

Specs can't be considered skillful or unskillful - players can be.

Period.
















































JK - My pet's ferocity spec is more skilled than your pet's cunning spec - NOOB

[Ethanlien]

So what are you saying?  All specs require the same skills to be at the top end, no matter how the specs are designed or what the combo is?

10/10 for novelty

[Mattadoro]

s11 marks triple dps.. scatter trap silence rapid fire and trinkets popped followed with chim shot and an arcane or 2 readiness repeat .. all while the targets cant attack you due to smokebomb /insane pressure

current kfc dps ... scatter trap silence rapid fire and trinkets popped followed with blink strinke and kill command  and the option of readiness all while the targets cant attack you due to shockwave /insane pressure


neither are hard.. coming out of invis with deep orb isnt hard... theres hardly anything hard in this game anymore  there's just little things good players do better or faster with quicker decision making or proper target choices

tl:dr this game isnt very skilled its just about stringing a lot of easy dmg and cc together and some people do that better than others which makes them more "skilled" (countercomps not included)

[dionim]

kettux just stop
playing bm doenst make you worse or better than anyone, is a fact.
but you can get more rating playing bm over mm, this is also a fact.
so we can say that bm is easier to play(or get rating) than mm, lol.

[Hackattack3]

Mattadoro, on 22 February 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

s11 marks triple dps.. scatter trap silence rapid fire and trinkets popped followed with chim shot and an arcane or 2 readiness repeat .. all while the targets cant attack you due to smokebomb /insane pressure

current kfc dps ... scatter trap silence rapid fire and trinkets popped followed with blink strinke and kill command  and the option of readiness all while the targets cant attack you due to shockwave /insane pressure

Generally speak, I agree with this assessment.  However, I feel that in some cases, KFC is even MORE mongo than triple dps was.  Please let me explain.


As triple dps, you got counter-comped by hpal + melee cleave and ret/dk/disc was pretty tough.  A lot of matches (est 25% of matches I played) came down to a 1vs1 or 2vs2 with these matchups.  Players can show their skills in 1vs1 and 2vs2 situations with no CDs up.

As KFC, you can screw up an opener and still be "alright" b/c you have heals and vs certain comps that can't peel (no mage) or don't have off heals (spriest) you can pretty much tunnel a target (warlock) with minimal cc on the healer and something will fall over.  

I would argue that KFC is even LESS reliant on landing a good scatter/trap than triple dps.


PS my hunter hit 87 and I read chim shot buff down to 25%,

[Nitric]

What team doesn't have a mage or spriest?

[Kettu]

dionim, on 22 February 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

playing bm doenst make you worse or better than anyone, is a fact.
but you can get more rating playing bm over mm, this is also a fact.
so we can say that bm is easier to play(or get rating) than mm, lol.

Thank you for informing us that BM is currently stronger spec than MM. I'm sure this hasn't been stated once during this topic.

I can state facts too.

you aren't s10 gladiator, is a fact.
you aren't s8 gladiator either, this is also a fact.
so we can say that according to your armory you have cheated 2 titles, lol.

:PPP

[Omglockzorx]

Kettu, on 24 February 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Thank you for informing us that BM is currently stronger spec than MM. I'm sure this hasn't been stated once during this topic.

I can state facts too.

you aren't s10 gladiator, is a fact.
you aren't s8 gladiator either, this is also a fact.
so we can say that according to your armory you have cheated 2 titles, lol.

:PPP

How do you cheat titiles btw? my aj profile claims im s10 glad which im not, but dunno why?

[Zerlog]

i can say 1 thing after reading those pages, ppl may not like me, but kettux even i have to agree that your talking BS

[Kettu]

Zerlog, on 24 February 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

you're talking BS

Please point out what exactly is BS of what I have said, blue geared 2730 RBG priest.

[Rhetorical1]

pretty sure kettu is slam dunking u noobs