38 replies to this topic

[affix]

I think this is a stupid mechanic, given that every talent on the tier breaks CC.  It's not like we can reasonably be expected NOT to cast bombs with a polymorph out.  Made a post here I'd love some feedback to:

http://us.battle.net...opic/7592802056

[OhhiimMvp]

Nvm, read the battle.net post. It really depends though, mages/warrior teams do so much dmg that is it necessary to even have to poly? Because it would suck that you can pull off a poly on the healer and just shit on anything that's inside the arena because the poly didn't break. All in all, Presence of Mind should not affect polymorph then. Because then this is what will happen, get the healer to trinket, instant poly on healer, shit on dps.

Edited by OhhiimMvp, 14 January 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[khuna]

its annoying that NT puts back in combat every tick too, not like other dots ( or maybe its only if there is someone else next to me? psure not )

[affix]

OhhiimMvp, on 14 January 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Nvm, read the battle.net post. It really depends though, mages/warrior teams do so much dmg that is it necessary to even have to poly? Because it would suck that you can pull off a poly on the healer and just shit on anything that's inside the arena because the poly didn't break. All in all, Presence of Mind should not affect polymorph then. Because then this is what will happen, get the healer to trinket, instant poly on healer, shit on dps.

If you think Mages shouldn't have polymorph you're free to argue that, but that's not really what this thread is about.  CC should be reliable, not randomly break outside of your control.  It's fine for it to be fragile, but the toolset has to be compatible.  It'd be as if Garrote's dot affected the target, and any target within 15 yards, breaking your blinds and saps.

[OhhiimMvp]

I don't think mages should not have poly morph, but if bombs isn't able to break poly, then make poly have a cast time no matter what. Take it out of the pom tree and give it like a 50% less cast time proc or something rather than an instant cast, because like I said before, force the healer to trinket, and just instant poly and the game is over. Especially if you're running with a warrior and/or sp, it will be pretty ridiculous.

And with the magnitude of kids that don't know how to dispel yet or just aren't quick enough, we'll have a huge crowd of QQ'ers about how mages are op once again because they can instant cast a poly and shit on a kid within those 8 seconds.

OR

They can do what they did with rogues, we have a glyph the removes all bleeds when blinded. Maybe throw in a spell for mages that do the same. Rather than what I am preaching above, lol.

Edited by OhhiimMvp, 14 January 2013 - 08:41 PM.

[affix]

OhhiimMvp, on 14 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

I don't think mages should not have poly morph, but if bombs isn't able to break poly, then make poly have a cast time no matter what. Take it out of the pom tree and give it like a 50% less cast time proc or something rather than an instant cast, because like I said before, force the healer to trinket, and just instant poly and the game is over. Especially if you're running with a warrior and/or sp, it will be pretty ridiculous.

And with the magnitude of kids that don't know how to dispel yet or just aren't quick enough, we'll have a huge crowd of QQ'ers about how mages are op once again because they can instant cast a poly and shit on a kid within those 8 seconds.

OR

They can do what they did with rogues, we have a glyph the removes all bleeds when blinded. Maybe throw in a spell for mages that do the same. Rather than what I am preaching above, lol.

I don't think you understand what I'm talking about in this thread.  Can you go back and read (or re-read) the post I linked?  This has nothing to do with sheeping a dotted target.  We already have a glyph for that.

Edited by affix, 14 January 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[Athená]

Doesn't living bomb also break cc? Granted, only at the end of the ability.
So perhaps make the aoe component of nether tempest only tick once every 6 sec, but harder?
Or just remove it completely and be done with it and buff nether tempest damage by 15% or so.

It just seems strange to me that frost mages are forced to play with an ability that is clearly meant for arcane.

[affix]

Athená, on 14 January 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

Doesn't living bomb also break cc? Granted, only at the end of the ability.
So perhaps make the aoe component of nether tempest only tick once every 6 sec, but harder?
Or just remove it completely and be done with it and buff nether tempest damage by 15% or so.

It just seems strange to me that frost mages are forced to play with an ability that is clearly meant for arcane.

Their stated goal with the talent trees is that there are no spec-specific talents, although in practice that isn't really the case.

Living Bomb is different because you can recast living bomb on a target if it is about to break a CC, to prevent it from exploding.  You can't do the same with NT.

I agree that the AoE component of NT is probably just unnecessary, it could be removed.  I do like that it punishes people from stacking on top of each other.  If you NT 3 targets and they all splash each other, it's fairly significant damage.

[OhhiimMvp]

affix, on 14 January 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

I don't think you understand what I'm talking about in this thread.  Can you go back and read (or re-read) the post I linked?  This has nothing to do with sheeping a dotted target.  We already have a glyph for that.

I do, but think about it as well, Frost Bomb does a huge amount of damage as it is. If you go off dotting every target and trying to have a healer sheeped, with a dot going off, the person you're going after is eventually going to die in the beginning stages and what, the healer is going to sit inside a sheep with something going off? No, it's not possible, I messed up my last statement and didn't mean to use the glyph as an example but more along the lines like the talent we have: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108216

I think they should do something like that for Frost Bomb and so on. That's what I meant to say and sorry for the confusion.

Edited by OhhiimMvp, 14 January 2013 - 09:10 PM.

[Coldizzle]

we have 1.5 min cd on insta poly you have blind what is the problem? i didnt get it

[affix]

OhhiimMvp, on 14 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

I do, but think about it as well, Frost Bomb does a huge amount of damage as it is. If you go off dotting every target and trying to have a healer sheeped, with a dot going off, the person you're going after is eventually going to die in the beginning stages and what, the healer is going to sit inside a sheep with something going off?

I think it's kind of silly to assume that Mages are balanced around the assumption that NT/Bomb will break polymorph.  NT does about 40k damage over 12 seconds.  And no, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect full duration polymorphs to last full duration.  They frequently do last full duration right now, and it puts out an appropriate amount of pressure.  We do insufficient pressure in cases where Poly is broken by NT.

More to the point:  We should not be balanced around the assumption that Polymorph will sometimes be broken by NT and sometimes won't be.  It's just mechanically silly.  We're either overpowered when it doesn't break early, or underpowered when it does.  It just shouldn't break it.  There's no logical justification for that kind of variability.  It'd be like saying Blind should have a 25% chance of breaking every time you gain a combo point - no, either blind should last full if left undisterbed or it shouldn't.

Edited by affix, 14 January 2013 - 09:31 PM.

[Crawthz]

Funny how mage can Orb or Frostbomb into Blind tho, without Orb or aoe component of Frostbomb breaking the Blind. Can't we have same treatment on Poly?

[Shawtss]

It's the same as the last tier in hunter talents. Every single ability will break cc. You just have to work around it

[affix]

Shawtss, on 14 January 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

It's the same as the last tier in hunter talents. Every single ability will break cc. You just have to work around it

Not really 'the same'.  Bombs can last ~12 seconds and your opponent controls where they go.  We're not asking that spells with AoE components do not break Poly - CoC should break Poly, so should nova and DB.  But a dot that lasts for 12 seconds that you put on a target that MUST be kept up at all times to do competitive damage, shouldn't break it.

[Tuxer]

Glyph of Polymorph needs to be changed so it also protects polys from nether tempest, frost bomb, and living bomb damage. This would fix everything.

[hairpiece]

i would prefer to just not play my frost mage like a fucking dot class.  i hate mage and almost everything they've done with it.  kill the entire bomb tier for all i care and replace with talents that are actually mage like.  not this dumb shit they've turned mage into.

[zzyzzyzz]

affix, on 14 January 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

If you think Mages shouldn't have polymorph you're free to argue that, but that's not really what this thread is about.  CC should be reliable, not randomly break outside of your control.  It's fine for it to be fragile, but the toolset has to be compatible.  It'd be as if Garrote's dot affected the target, and any target within 15 yards, breaking your blinds and saps.

i gota wonder are u an idiot? what about blizzards stance on pvp has ever hinted that "balance" and "logic" dictate how p v fucking p is done

they DO NOT like pvp in wow. they have SAID IT. u have read these posts i know you have. furthermore the game that IS a pvp game, sc2, they have done a horrible job with quality of life or creating skill gaps. the game intended to be an esport has battles that last sometimes 3 seconds before a clear winner has been decided and after 2 years of people telling the makers of a game DESIGNED for pvp that there are serious flaws in the "deathball" and "deluded" nature of unit use in the game they refused to come up with a solution and in fact ADDED more problems. they took a flaw and multiplied it. they are a lightning in a bottle company that hit gold with the 3 games they came up with and have done nothing new and creative since

now lets reflect on why in a non pvp oriented game your pleas to gain more skilled aspects will fall on deaf ears.

side note, poly the way it was in bc/wrath is dead and multi dotting ppl is king so why is this the stance your taking? there are 5650450495 more things that are making this game horrible and unplayable its just mind boggling to read what u wrote

Edited by zzyzzyzz, 15 January 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[canofwormsx]

dont spec for a bomb yolo

[Talbadar]

it's hard to imagine people arguing against affix that bombs should break polymorph.. I think Frost Bomb and Living Bomb breaking poly is fine, but  the secondary part of Nether Tempest should not hit a CC'd target.

[Coldizzle]

why all talents have to be abilities? i cant understand that