20 replies to this topic

[Niezeremake]

"We are considering making the glyphs of Desperation and Inner Focus passive for Discipline."

"We did not buff PvP Power for healer damage as we did for DPS healing. However, we believe that Discipline specifically might need more damage. One potential solution is to nerf Atonement healing but raise damage so there is no net healing change."

Hopefully this and something more goes through!

http://us.battle.net...975?page=15#299 more stuff

Edited by Niezeremake, 15 January 2013 - 07:21 AM.

[Execx]

What's the source?

[Niezeremake]

Execx, on 13 January 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

What's the source?

MMO

[Gekz]

do they really have to consider it

[flannelsoff]

I wonder which one of their fine collection of genius game balancers thought these were good ideas

[Porkz]

Good start but still really long way to go. Glyph changes are nice but won't make disc a rank 1 viable spec in the long run. They need to address bigger issues like fear being worthless when playing against a shaman with 30 second Tremor Totem or Berserker Rage and the fact that we have the lowest healing output while casting compared to every other healer. Also make Desperate Prayer's cooldown reduce to 1 minute and Angelic Bulwark undispellable.

[Theles]

I think they should somehow increase your healing output. I don't think that the problem is you dying anymore with focused will being 30% etc. I'd say the biggest problem is never being able to top your teammates off.

Edited by Theles, 13 January 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[crazieh]

They need to be careful not to make disc too over-powered though. If you think about it, if all the Priest issues were taken care of (survivability, mana, extra healing) then they'd actually be the easiest healer to play in the game and probably the best.

The combination of 30sec CD Phantasm (fade) heals, 45sec Aura Mastery heals, ontop of clearing your focus every 30sec with spectral guise (night elf priests will be super aids again) then if all else fails, just swap hp instantly and LoS heal yourself... it's all way too basic and easy to play.

So then if disc is able to take glyph of swd and fear ward for every relevant game if the baseline changes go through, they're going to be even more difficult to CC, not to mention instant CC's getting nerfed (rightly so too) but it does directly effect how much easier healers will be to play.



It's going to be a really fine line between making discs "viable"  and them being stupidly easy to play and overpowered for sure. The whole easyclassmode shield + immunity heal your target was really silly in cata in the first place, now they have a whole bunch of easy-class abilities to use in arena, people just don't realise it yet because of how bad disc is right now.

[Vanguards]

I honestly felt like healing output was a big issue for disc too. The low healing output seems to force them to continually use inefficient heals making them oom way faster compared to other healers. Hopefully disc can be rank 1 viable again soon; they're one of the most fun healers to play with.

[Djandawg]

crazieh, on 13 January 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

They need to be careful not to make disc too over-powered though. If you think about it, if all the Priest issues were taken care of (survivability, mana, extra healing) then they'd actually be the easiest healer to play in the game and probably the best.

The combination of 30sec CD Phantasm (fade) heals, 45sec Aura Mastery heals, ontop of clearing your focus every 30sec with spectral guise (night elf priests will be super aids again) then if all else fails, just swap hp instantly and LoS heal yourself... it's all way too basic and easy to play.

So then if disc is able to take glyph of swd and fear ward for every relevant game if the baseline changes go through, they're going to be even more difficult to CC, not to mention instant CC's getting nerfed (rightly so too) but it does directly effect how much easier healers will be to play.

It's going to be a really fine line between making discs "viable"  and them being stupidly easy to play and overpowered for sure. The whole easyclassmode shield + immunity heal your target was really silly in cata in the first place, now they have a whole bunch of easy-class abilities to use in arena, people just don't realise it yet because of how bad disc is right now.

See this is unrealistic prediction, let's say priest gets paladin/shaman level healing, it doesn't mean anything. There is still no reason to bring a priest.
You don't have bop, you don't have freedom, you don't have an interrupt, your cc is irrelevant because of totemic restoration and 2 million year cast time of your oneshottable psyfiend, that is also instant fearable by paladins. You can't break cc of your team mates, bop blind / tremor and so on. You don't have damage.
On top of everything, the class has the worst survivability/mobility and is meant to be soloed by melee by design. So not only you don't provide a single utility to your team mates , you are a burden to them.
Disc was r1 viable because we had good cc, good damage, good dispels. Now we have worst cc among all healers, worst dispel (can't decurse and everyone removes all debuffs) and worst healer damage.

So, don't worry about disc becoming overpowered, unless they add a cc/interrupt, buff dmg by %200,add a couple of team utility spells and nerf every other healer, this will never happen.

Edited by Djandawg, 13 January 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[Najiki]

i just dont like the way we have to spend massive amounts of mana using inneficient heals to keep ur target barely alive, sometimes i find myself almost oom whilst oposing healer sits on 70%, i dont know how they shud fix it. Cause buffing rupture to much will affect pve to much i recon. Maybe do somethin about shadowfiend/mindbender make it harder to cc or somthin like that.

Also atm making them overpowered doesnt seem to be the biggest problem at hand, rather making them at least playable even with theese changes i dont c us being better then hpall/rsham. I'd rather focus on our utility then healing when it comes to this matter, since our utility is inferior to other healers.

Edited by Najiki, 13 January 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[pripripriest]

even with those changes up we do not have time to assist dps cause forced to spam lolheals till oom and our utilities are beyond useless. worst dispel, no decent cc, no interrupt and dog crap surv... further more disc game style has become shit and boring due to major game mechanics changes so ... whatever just reroll or play smtg else

[mackazar]

Disc being able to dispel two things at once without a CD was a huge thing and the CD to dispel along with it getting everything really killed disc IMO

[Improve]

mackazar, on 13 January 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

Disc being able to dispel two things at once without a CD was a huge thing and the CD to dispel along with it getting everything really killed disc IMO

i really liked old disc playstyle because you were one of the few healers that could play offensively, mana burns, fears, dispels, MC, etc

seems a bit boring now

[phunk]

what about making MC baseline? would that help anything

[Djandawg]

mackazar, on 13 January 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

Disc being able to dispel two things at once without a CD was a huge thing and the CD to dispel along with it getting everything really killed disc IMO

This is the absolute truth and was mainly caused by spam dispelling of dots. They can improve dispel protection of dots and revert back to the original dispel system. They can also remove the cd of mass dispel for disc.

phunk, on 13 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

what about making MC baseline? would that help anything

It would help, we don't know to what degree in 3s because of low healing output and risk of falling behind yourself. It's difficult to theory craft for most priests because 2300 has been passed only by a few people and we don't have much data against good players.

[dionim]

those changes, and dispel removing 2 buffs once again and i think priest will be in a good spot.


also FIX the totem thing, i really dont think blizzard did it on porpuse, no way they should give 30s fear imunity to any class in this game.

[Niezeremake]

http://us.battle.net...975?page=15#299
We are going to nerf Divine Aegis for Prayer of Healing, but also lower the cost of Power Word: Shield (for Disc only) and increase the healing and damage of Penance. In 25 raids, Disc is using Prayer of Healing almost exclusively and we don't think the Spirit Shell change will be sufficient to change that. We actually want Disc to get back to using PW:Shield a little more, along with Penance. Disc's throughput is overall too strong in PvE, not even counting the fact that absorbs are often more beneficial than heals.
- Angelic Bulwark and Spirit Shell can no longer be dispelled.

This is sick changes for Disc priest and will def buff our healing and mana regen.

If they reduce the mana cost of Power word shield by alot i don't see us going oom if rapture is getting buffed at the same time, spirit shell being undispellable makes it an ability that we can actually use properly now. Buffing penance is needed aswell but i'd like to see them increasing the healing done by flash heal by like 30%.

Edited by Niezeremake, 15 January 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[zsuper]

Holy Paladins basically do everything Disc does better and I can't see any number changes fixing that. I think new abilities or minor reworks are needed to make Disc okay.

Also, unless Disc gets an instant heal, the number of interrupts in the game is too high for it to be playable. Even Paladins capable of bombing 100k+ instants are having trouble keeping targets up.

Warriors are especially bad offenders, as well as Rogues with 8(?) second Kidney Shot.

Edited by zsuper, 15 January 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[Lilyi]

zsuper, on 15 January 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Holy Paladins basically do everything Disc does better and I can't see any number changes fixing that. I think new abilities or minor reworks are needed to make Disc okay.

Also, unless Disc gets an instant heal, the number of interrupts in the game is too high for it to be playable. Even Paladins capable of bombing 100k+ instants are having trouble keeping targets up.

Warriors are especially bad offenders, as well as Rogues with 8(?) second Kidney Shot.

I think you're trying to make too many direct comparisons between paladins and priests. Paladins aren't just better disc priests. You're underestimating the value of absorbs (ability to prepare for future incoming damage) and priests' ability to avoid CC (i.e. phantasm/guise/glyphed death maybe now that some glyphs are baseline/glyphed penance to channel out of LOS or range once the cast starts). Priest CC is also on different diminishing return groups, which makes a big difference for a lot of comps.

The most recent 5.2 changes are big and I could see them making disc completely viable again, depending on what the exact numbers end up being. Keep in mind that:
* Penance will heal for more
* Shields will be cheaper
* Flash heal spam will be more sustainable w/ the new 4pc bonus (-50% flash heal cost during sshell), although you will lose some burst throughput from the old 4pc (penance buff should offset this, depending on numbers)
* More flash heal sustainability allows you to shield more often due to the Strength of Soul passive
* Divine insight might actually be a strong talent without just OOMing you twice as fast

One of my biggest problems with disc's overall design is how weak atonement is in pvp. This means that archangel also isn't very useable; disc does need a healing throughput cooldown, which archangel was supposed to provide. Archangel/Evangelism is pretty well designed, so it's a shame that it gets sidelined in pvp. I'd like to see the -50% self-healing penalty go away (seems like an outdated design; monk eminence healing doesn't do this, for example), and the amount healed ignore the enemy target's resilience (i.e. if you nuke for 1000, resil reduces that to 500 dmg, the atonement heal is still 1000).

Edited by Lilyi, 15 January 2013 - 10:22 AM.