70 replies to this topic

[Tenk]

Biggest problem with some of these changes are that the weaker melee classes are getting lots of buffs. Right now warriors for sure overpower DK's, Rogues, and Monks.

However, by nerfing the stronger class while at the same time buffing the weaker ones, you are much more apt to overshoot your mark. I think that warriors will be one of the weaker melee next patch, not because of these changes alone but in association with the buffs to the other melee classes.

What should have been done was probably less nerfing to warriors and more buffing to other melee, reassess once 5.2 hits and then if nerfs were needed, nerf then. As it stands right now, nerfing warrior survivability and our already limited CC while buffing other melee will just result in the old fashioned "train the warrior from start to finish." Boring.

[Braindance]

Tenk, on 11 January 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Biggest problem with some of these changes are that the weaker melee classes are getting lots of buffs. Right now warriors for sure overpower DK's, Rogues, and Monks.

However, by nerfing the stronger class while at the same time buffing the weaker ones, you are much more apt to overshoot your mark. I think that warriors will be one of the weaker melee next patch, not because of these changes alone but in association with the buffs to the other melee classes.

What should have been done was probably less nerfing to warriors and more buffing to other melee, reassess once 5.2 hits and then if nerfs were needed, nerf then. As it stands right now, nerfing warrior survivability and our already limited CC while buffing other melee will just result in the old fashioned "train the warrior from start to finish." Boring.

What buff to other melee? Only rogues and monks are getting buffed and rogues will still melt vs any war. I'm not sure for monks but their population is still low so it's not an immediate danger.

[phishy]

Tenk, on 11 January 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Biggest problem with some of these changes are that the weaker melee classes are getting lots of buffs. Right now warriors for sure overpower DK's, Rogues, and Monks.

However, by nerfing the stronger class while at the same time buffing the weaker ones, you are much more apt to overshoot your mark. I think that warriors will be one of the weaker melee next patch, not because of these changes alone but in association with the buffs to the other melee classes.

What should have been done was probably less nerfing to warriors and more buffing to other melee, reassess once 5.2 hits and then if nerfs were needed, nerf then. As it stands right now, nerfing warrior survivability and our already limited CC while buffing other melee will just result in the old fashioned "train the warrior from start to finish." Boring.

the best way to balance is to do small changes more frequently, but this is blizzard. they won't do that, so 5.2 which is still a month+ away is long overdue and the other melee that are obsolete in comparison to warriors right now are tired of sitting around waiting for any changes. and looking at the actual patch notes, warriors will still be on top, or at the very least, in line with other melee, whereas of course now you just go around terrorizing everyone

Edited by phishy, 12 January 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[Hyrmine]

Hoodzx, on 11 January 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Lol if this goes on live, supposing i charge 3 people, they're getting the 3sec stun and i can make a "safe" shockwave on them (i mean safe because it'll have only 20sec cd )

Might be retarded (7sec aoe stun yeye)

This is a good change. People should get penalized if they stack up in the start of a game and allow you to charge all of them together. Arena is too retard friendly already.

[Moshe]

Overpower now has a rage cost of 10 rage. 5.2 ptr

• Overpower Instantly overpower the enemy causing 105% weapon damage. Cannot be blocked, dodged or parried. Overpower has a 60% increased chance to be a critical strike. Overpower is activated by Taste for Blood. Warrior - Arms Spec. Melee range. Instant. 10 Rage. Melee range. Instant.

I think this will prevent warriors from sitting in def stance pretty much, or atleast you will never slam. Discuss...

Edited by Moshe, 17 January 2013 - 01:05 AM.

[Braindance]

Well, now this is bad

[Wexlike]

this.. hurts

[Jacktrapper]

Hyrmine, on 16 January 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

This is a good change. People should get penalized if they stack up in the start of a game and allow you to charge all of them together. Arena is too retard friendly already.

Have you ever tried playing double melee against warriors? (melee  as non dk/warrior).....

This basically means ur entire dps group is stunned 33% of the time.. nice.

[Djandawg]

A class does not have to be broken to be considered viable. This is one of the problems with warrior community, Majority thought s3-s4 , s6-7, s9start, s12 warrior was well balanced and no nerfs were needed..
They gave 6-7 amazing abilities this expansion which allows warriors to deal with every single situation in arena, and this was destroying the arena experience of non warrior players. If you wanna know how it is, try to remember facing s5 dks in 2s, that's how bad it is.
Now some nerfs are going through, it's not going to destroy the viability of the class, warriors will still be good, they just won't be as broken as they are right now(which most people consider balanced/viable). The class has still the same set of tools that has good synergy with most casters / melee in 3s. We don't know yet how monks/rogues are gonna turn out to be but if you think warriors are going to be bad, try ret pala, dk , enh shaman etc and see how you like them comparing to your "destroyed" warrior class.

Also, if you don't wanna be called a tunneling monkey, then don't play one, go read Veev's blog, he says the warrior has always been the easiest to succeed with and was lacking the finesse/skill components unlike other classes like rogue, shadow priest etc.
If you do, then stop making statements like, whole wow pvp is easy lol, no it's not as easy for other classes as it is for warriors, it has never been and stop comparing a reflect to a pre mass dispel. Just zerg the fuck down people until you crit enough to kill / enemy healer runs out of mana/cds and get on with it.

Edited by Djandawg, 17 January 2013 - 03:33 AM.

[Braindance]

Djandawg, on 17 January 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

A class does not have to be broken to be considered viable. This is one of the problems with warrior community, Majority thought s3-s4 , s6-7, s9start, s12 warrior was well balanced and no nerfs were needed..
They gave 6-7 amazing abilities this expansion which allows warriors to deal with every single situation in arena, and this was destroying the arena experience of non warrior players. If you wanna know how it is, try to remember facing s5 dks in 2s, that's how bad it is.
Now some nerfs are going through, it's not going to destroy the viability of the class, warriors will still be good, they just won't be as broken as they are right now(which most people consider balanced/viable). The class has still the same set of tools that has good synergy with most casters / melee in 3s. We don't know yet how monks/rogues are gonna turn out to be but if you think warriors are going to be bad, try ret pala, dk , enh shaman etc and see how you like them comparing to your "destroyed" warrior class.

Also, if you don't wanna be called a tunneling monkey, then don't play one, go read Veev's blog, he says the warrior has always been the easiest to succeed with and was lacking the finesse/skill components unlike other classes like rogue, shadow priest etc.
If you do, then stop making statements like, whole wow pvp is easy lol, no it's not as easy for other classes as it is for warriors, it has never been and stop comparing a reflect to a pre mass dispel. Just zerg the fuck down people until you crit enough to kill / enemy healer runs out of mana/cds and get on with it.

You know that this is why other classes have "higher skill caps" right?

[djp771133]

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

[Braindance]

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

It will chance - arms will be revamped. I'm on your server now btw^^

[djp771133]

Braindance, on 17 January 2013 - 04:01 AM, said:

It will chance - arms will be revamped. I'm on your server now btw^^

oh hey cool, what is your toon's name?

[Braindance]

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

oh hey cool, what is your toon's name?

Braindance ofc

*Brawler Braindace

Edited by Braindance, 17 January 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[Snuggli]

Official Blizzard Quote:

Warbringer now reduces the target's movement by 50% for 8 seconds. The 3-second stun/knockdown is now in the diminishing returns category for stuns.

Second Wind will no longer regenerate health while the Warrior is stunned.

Defensive Stance now reduces damage by 15% (was 25%).

On behalf of everyone who plays World of Warcraft but isn't a Warrior:

Edited by Snuggli, 17 January 2013 - 04:31 AM.

[Silhin]

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

djp771133, on 17 January 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

that overpower change is pretty brutal, I don't see anyone being able to sit in d stance anymore now.  MS only gives 10 rage, and that and charge are the only rage you get in D stance.  So that is only 1 op, and 1 ms, plus random cs procs if this goes live.  IMO put it to 5 so you can at least get your bare minimum combo out.  MS and 2 overpower.  If warriors have to sit in battlestance they will die very easy.

Oh no having to take base line gear resilence damage like everyone else what will u do !

[Braindance]

Silhin, on 17 January 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Oh no having to take base line gear resilence damage like everyone else what will u do !

We don't have short cds to mitigate this damage - that's why you have feint for example. It was fun while it lasted.

[Deonto]

Well, if these changes go live.. it looks like fury will be the way to go.

[Covlol]

Deonto, on 17 January 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Well, if these changes go live.. it looks like fury will be the way to go.

WTF!? fury is awful and this hurts fury just as much as arms (defensively)

[Deonto]

Covlol, on 17 January 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

WTF!? fury is awful and this hurts fury just as much as arms (defensively)

If op does keep a 10 rage cost, then arms damage while sitting in defensive stance is going to be completely destroyed. Meaning if you get trained the whole game you will probably be doing no damage(go on ptr and try out this change while also using hamstring/TC often).

Fury, on the other hand, is actually getting a buff (wild strike will no longer cost rage with the proc and will last 5sec longer) and raging blow only costs 10 rage to start with.

At the moment on live, arms isn't very far ahead of fury in terms of dps while sitting in defense stance(with my tests, anyways). So, with that change, fury will probably be the dominate pvp spec.

And if you happen to sit in battle for a whole game, the only difference will be that fury is more RNG/proc based, while arms is more consistent.

Also, I assume you thought I was talking about... the second wind nerf/Dstance nerf? Nope, I was not. I am merely thinking about the most viable dps spec if you are forced to sit in Dstance the whole game.

Edited by Deonto, 17 January 2013 - 07:38 AM.