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5.2 Mistweaver PTR First Look

Mistweaver Monk PTR 5.2

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#1 Mushx

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

*UPDATE - Please note the original date of this posting, it is outdated now*

I have about 10 hours of recordings from PTR though ques were long and my opponents weren't all exactly that good. Check out my VODs at
http://www.twitch.tv/mush777

I've been playing and streaming 3s on PTR and MW monks in the current state of PTR are the best healers along with paladins IMO. Melee cleaves are extremely strong especially when paired with a monk. KFC, thug cleave, spriest/rogue, spriest/ww monk, and ww monk/hunter will be popular comps for MW monks from what it looks like along with all the current warrior comps as well. WW and MW monks would be stackable on teams because Ring of Peace and the ranged undispellable paralysis are a bit too overpowered.

Ring of peace does not DR with anything, it can be targeted on allies or enemies, it has a 40 yard range and is instant cast. There is a short delay before the ring of peace actually starts working so you can get 1-2 casts off before it silences/disarms. Aura mastery does not negate ring of peace from what I've seen.

Ring of peace is a bit buggy and seems to not always work properly as I was able to cast with an enemy's RoP on me for about 7 seconds before it worked on me one time. It can be trinketed for an extremely short period of time where you can get one ability off before it procs again. Divine shield (pally bubble) is one thing that negates it and paladins can still BOP of course. One heal you can get off during ring of peace is chi torpedo but the problem is you will disarm/silence your partner(s). You can still use spear hand strike and paralysis while under the effects of ring of peace so use that to stop damage if you can.

Ring of peace should not make it live the way it is now that but in the case that is does, we'll be looking at one extremely shitty season full of monks running cheesy comps.

WW Monks and rogues are still glass cannons but do a lot more damage this time around. Good thing MW monks are melee counters.

I was almost un-cc-able outside of instant cc such as priest silence and ring of peace. Positioning and mobility are the keys to avoiding cc as a MW monk can use max range very effectively.

I tried using both zen spheres and chi wave but chi wave had out-shined zen sphere in almost every situation. It did about 3x the output when compared to zen spheres.

MW Monks are extremely mana efficient with chi wave costing no chi. I was able to keep enveloping mist up almost 100% of the time. Sometimes I had too much chi and had to refresh enveloping mist early or even use it on uplift.

Edited by Mushx, 07 March 2013 - 12:03 PM.


#2 Draakex

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:05 AM

so you think the mana-problems mw-monks have right now won't be that harsh with 5.2? every mw-monk i saw in arenas at least was oom before the other healer even got to half his mana

Posted Image


#3 Mushx

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:57 AM

I've had almost no problems with mana in all arena brackets. If the MW monk is going oom before the other healer it can be a lot of things. I have seen MW monks go oom because they are improperly gemmed, they use surging mist too much, they get CC'd too much and because their team takes too much damage without being able to put out counter pressure.

To heal efficiently MW monks need to use chi wave on cooldown and use soothing mist as much as possible while avoiding CC.

Healing spheres are extremely mana efficient as well so use them as much as you can.

In 5.2 I almost had no mana problems at all in over 100 games played in 3s. Most of the games were against opponents with 1800-2100 MMR on PTR which is the higest MMR I've seen outside of reckful's team. Chi wave costing no chi definitely helps with mana because you will be able to spend all the chi on enveloping mist. So most of the time you are using heals that don't even cost mana.

Edited by Mushx, 15 January 2013 - 08:59 AM.


#4 Mushx

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:35 AM

Patch 5.2 PTR - Build 16486 - Jan 23rd 2013

Changes for Mistweavers Only (Fistweavers)

Eminence & Eminence (Statue) - nerfed to 25% down from 50%

Muscle Memory (New) - When you successfully Jab or damage at least 3 enemies with Spinning Crane Kick, you gain Muscle Memory, increasing the damage of your next Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick by 200%.

Crackling Jade Lightning - Damage increased by 100%.

Tiger Palm - Damage increased by 100%.

Blackout Kick - Blackout Kick also hits 4 additional nearby targets for 50% damage. (~15 yard radius)


5.1 on a full upgraded PvP geared monk hitting target dummies
20k ticks of crackling jade lightning
40k blackout kicks
17k tiger palm hits

5.2 target dummies
40k ticks of crackling jade lightning (the buff was not implemented on the PTR yet)
~120k blackout kicks + 60k on 4 additional targets with muscle memory (only hitting 1 additional target on PTR)
~100-110k tiger palms with muscle memory

These numbers will be a lot lower because of resilience and healer DPS does not benefit from PvP power. They will do about 25% of its full damage on full resilience targets.

I'm not sure why they are giving fistweaver monks a DPS buff but this will allow them to have more offensive options now. The blackout kick and tiger palm buff won't affect 3s too much but the crackling jade lightning buff definitely will. The one problem I see with these buffs is it can make MW monks viable in double healer comps. It's not like this bracket matters but MW monks will be gods in 2s now.

*I will probably stream some games if the ques aren't too bad and if PTR isn't too buggy.

Edited by Mushx, 07 February 2013 - 06:29 AM.


#5 WildeHilde

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

Muscle Memory looks pretty strong. It's a really solid execute for a healer. The eminence nerf will however kill Xuen as option for Mistweavers.

#6 Mushx

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:03 AM

The eminence healing will remain the same as it is now according to Ghostcrwaler's twitter.

After testing these buffs on the PTR, there is absolutely no way muscle memory and blackout kick's AOE can make it to live the way it is in this PTR build. I was able to sustain 75k DPS by just alternating jab and tiger palm on a single target dummy. Also, blackout kick AOE can easily do more than 150K+ DPS on 5 targets. There is no way they can allow a healer to outDPS actual DPS classes in PvE. =[

Edited by Mushx, 26 January 2013 - 10:32 AM.


#7 WildeHilde

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:20 AM

The PvE guys on EJ don't seem overly concerned:

Quote

The odd thing about this is that BoK and TP just aren't that much healing anyway. BoK (ignoring Serpent's Zeal, say it's already up and we're talking about extra BoKs) is terribly inefficient on its own. Even if BoK healing is tripled, you have to be in a poor Uplift situation (i.e. Uplift would be mostly overheal and going remain mostly overheal for as long as you can pool Chi) to consider spending any Chi on BoK beyond what you need to for SZ. Same for TP and Tiger Power. Look at the current numbers for BoK in the calc and extrapolate from there--even with these buffs, it's no Penance.

So it's a little misleading to talk about HPM of Jab or EH since you're not using those spells for healing. You're likely going to be using BoK and TP twice a minute for buffs, EH 4 times a minute for cheap Chi, and that still leaves ample time to arrange things so you're preceding each BoK/TP with a Jab for a little extra efficiency.

I went about this is kind of a roundabout way. Short version is, EH is a very cheap Chi with a cooldown and you're not going to be using BoK and TP so often that you can't power each one with Jab while also taking advantage of that cheap Chi. That's true even if I'm wrong and BoK/TP turn out to be so strong that you start favoring them over ReM/Uplift even beyond what you need to keep their buffs up.

Source: http://elitistjerks....18/#post2246449

#8 Mushx

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:12 AM

They seem to be forgetting about the DPS component of the change. It looks to me like those theorycrafters haven't even stepped foot onto the PTR. It makes me wonder if Blizzard or these theorycrafters actually go onto servers to test these changes.

They need to change it so muscle memory increases the eminence healing on the next blackout kick/tiger palm as opposed to damage. Once again Blizzard had a great idea but failed at implementing it. :mellow:

#9 Heywoods

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:15 AM

Question about the RoP change announced:

- Ring of Peace has been adjusted. It now forms a sanctuary around the friendly target, causing enemies within 8 yards to be disarmed and causes enemies who cast a harmful spell to be silenced for 3 sec. Moving out of the ring does not remove the silence, but it won't trigger again. The duration of Ring of Peace is 8 sec.

So does this mean that Ring of Peace will only silence casted spells like, Frostbolt? What about CC, heals, and channelled? I guess I am just seeking clarification and ideally a list of what spells are classified as "harmful."

#10 maarko

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 03:00 AM

The way it is worded makes it sound as if you will still be able to cast heals in RoP and they want it to be used purely as a defensive cd. I actually think that would be the most balanced way to implent RoP.
Spoiler

#11 Mushx

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:45 AM

Quote

So does this mean that Ring of Peace will only silence casted spells like, Frostbolt? What about CC, heals, and channelled? I guess I am just seeking clarification and ideally a list of what spells are classified as "harmful."

I have the same questions as you do about the ring of peace change as well. I will test it as soon as they put up a new PTR build with this change.

Quote

The way it is worded makes it sound as if you will still be able to cast heals in RoP and they want it to be used purely as a defensive cd. I actually think that would be the most balanced way to implent RoP.

I agree, it was the perfect way to change RoP. It still can be used offensively to some degree though. For example: put it on your rogue while he trains a shaman and melee are unable to peel as effectively from melee range.

#12 maarko

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:26 AM

Ok so I tried out the PTR again with s13 gear (malev weapon) and i'm critting for 40-50k, ~25k non crits on leather with my Tiger Palm as mistweaver. The mana return is actually quite noticeable and you dont really have to worry about the jab mana cost all that much because of the return. Blackout Kick was ~30-35k non crit and cleaves for 1/2 that on up to 4 other targets. It is pretty ridiculous damage for a healer to have.

Notes about Ring of Peace:

It is a blanket silence and not a school lockout.

Silence occurs after the first cast, whether it is an instant or a full cast.
So for example, you can still cast sheep/fear/chaos bolt, psychic scream etc while inside RoP and once it goes off the caster will be silenced for 3 seconds.

You can be re-silenced if you cast again after the blanket ends.

As expected, you can cast heals without getting silenced while inside of it.
Spoiler

#13 Heywoods

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:14 PM

View Postmaarko, on 01 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

The mana return is actually quite noticeable and you dont really have to worry about the jab mana cost all that much because of the return.

I don't get this? Jab is 4% base mana. TP returns 1%. How is that 1% making such a noticeable difference?

View Postmaarko, on 01 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

So for example, you can still cast sheep/fear/chaos bolt, psychic scream etc while inside RoP and once it goes off the caster will be silenced for 3 seconds.

That's really interesting. So CC is considered a harmful spell. So the only thing RoP won't stop is heals. Neat.

Edited by Heywoods, 01 February 2013 - 10:17 PM.


#14 maarko

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:47 PM

View PostHeywoods, on 01 February 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:



I don't get this? Jab is 4% base mana. TP returns 1%. How is that 1% making such a noticeable difference?

[/size]
That's really interesting. So CC is considered a harmful spell. So the only thing RoP won't stop is heals. Neat.

Obviously you will drop in mana, but it took me just under 3 mins of attacking a target dummy rotating jab and tigers palm to go oom all while doing 58k dps as a healer, without even using mana tea. I'm just saying that if you actually have the opportunity to help dps, a jab tigerpalm rotation is actually really good to do. Obviously in 3s this wont happen often but for 2s it is pretty great. With all the changes to abilities requiring Chi, I already seem to have an excess amount of Chi on the PTR so tigerpalming as often as you can does make a difference over time.

Posted Image

Edited by maarko, 01 February 2013 - 11:14 PM.

Spoiler

#15 Mushx

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 09:10 PM

View PostHeywoods, on 01 February 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

I don't get this? Jab is 4% base mana. TP returns 1%. How is that 1% making such a noticeable difference?

[/size]
That's really interesting. So CC is considered a harmful spell. So the only thing RoP won't stop is heals. Neat.

Some heals are considered damaging spells such as penance, cascade, halo, divine star, holy prism, expel harm, and chi wave because of the damage component of the spells. RoP doesn't stop harmful spells it only silences you afterwards.

Edited by Mushx, 04 February 2013 - 11:11 AM.


#16 Heywoods

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 12:06 AM

Watched your stream for about an hour today, Mushy. MW Monks look very strong. They definitely need their damage and maybe healing throughput tuned imo before going live. I need to get on PTR to check, but it looks like Chi Wave is the I-win heal right now on PTR for monks. You guys had some pretty sloppy play during a few games, but your monk just did so much healing and pressure it didn't matter.

But thanks for streaming. Good stuff all around.

Edited by Heywoods, 05 February 2013 - 12:08 AM.


#17 WildeHilde

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:30 PM

Glyph of Paralysis: Your Paralysis ability also removes all damage over time effects from the target.

Great change. Opens monks up for more comps.

http://www.mmo-champ...PTR-Build-16539

#18 Nadagast

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 05 February 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Glyph of Paralysis: Your Paralysis ability also removes all damage over time effects from the target.

Great change. Opens monks up for more comps.

http://www.mmo-champ...PTR-Build-16539

Woohoo!  :)

#19 StigmaticAscetic

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 10:35 AM

All of these changes are great and will make playing monk way more enjoyable. But i have been playing monk all season and  i can not understand why we have to wait until 5.2 for blizzard to make the most obvious and necessary changes :(

#20 Mushx

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:35 PM

Thanks Aluress, yea we played pretty sloppy but those were two people I never played with before. My rogue didn't want to use cloak and dagger/shuriken toss and gemmed pvp power which made my life tougher :(

Chi wave and MW monk dps is definitely too good. For some reason they ninja nerfed chi wave by 100% and zen spheres with the latest PTR on Feb 5th. Chi wave is back to doing what it does on live but with the 15 sec cd still. It was probably intended for WW monks because they healed way too much with it but it hurt MW monks badly.

I don't really know why they buffed Ring of Peace to be a 45 second CD. I certainly thought it was okay at 1.5 mins but after this buff I would certainly take RoP over charging ox and leg sweep almost all the time now.

Yay for paralysis glyph! =P

Edited by Mushx, 07 February 2013 - 05:22 AM.





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