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#41 majorblood

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 11 January 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

A class causing problems to your comp/class does not necessarily deserve losing their core abilities.
This mentality brought the dispel system change, cyclone dr, mana burn removal, blanket counterspell change. All reliable healers gaining freedom and melee classes getting additional stuns, snare breaks , the mage class needed blanket cs more than ever but it's getting removed.

I would like to see how people in this thread would feel if stuff like the following happened:
-Holy paladin instants are too strong, so were removed freedom.
-Warriors can stack offensive cooldowns, so we removed charge stun.
-Blood fear was too strong, so we removed your healthstone.

Mages will not be ok next patch, they will be borderline bad and this will hurt the caster comps that require the melee prevention tools of the mage. We'll see how people like the game when it's kfc/melee cleave 30 games in a row, tunneling healers until crits / stuns are aligned.
warlocks are also losing their blanket silence so this comparison is arbitrary

Edited by majorblood, 11 January 2013 - 08:28 PM.


#42 Saikx

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

View Postmajorblood, on 11 January 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

warlocks are also losing their blanket silence so this comparison is arbitrary

-Blood fear was too strong, so we removed your Spell-Lock.

fixed.

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#43 Icekingx

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

Maybe 1 day we will go back to casting frostbolt followed up by icelance but for now we will stick with spamming icelance putting nethertemp on everything and praying to the RNG gods for Brain Freeze procs.

Rawrbertlol, on 14 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

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#44 Wallirik

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

View PostSaikx, on 11 January 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

-Blood fear was too strong, so we removed your Spell-Lock.

fixed.

-Blood fear was too strong, so we removed both that and spell lock

:(

#45 inhume

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:11 PM

arena needs to become more about people playing their characters instead of the normal chain instant cc that is currently happening. By this i mean stun into silence which are TWO different DRs and can go past 10+ seconds of someone not being able to play their character. i do really feel they've gone overboard in this game on the number of classes that have silence and it destroys healers/casters. i mean at one point in this expansion we had mage, lock, rogue, warrior, druid, hunter, spriest, monk and dk all being able to silence. and when you combine silence and stun on casters, you get the complaints that YOU CAN'T CAST IN ARENA. I think a healthy change for the game would be to combine silence and stun in the DR category because you can get 10+ seconds a caster of just doing nothing while being violated.

ps, i'd give lock and mages their silence back with that change.

Edited by inhume, 11 January 2013 - 10:12 PM.


#46 Nadagast

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:31 AM

View Postinhume, on 11 January 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

arena needs to become more about people playing their characters instead of the normal chain instant cc that is currently happening. By this i mean stun into silence which are TWO different DRs and can go past 10+ seconds of someone not being able to play their character. i do really feel they've gone overboard in this game on the number of classes that have silence and it destroys healers/casters. i mean at one point in this expansion we had mage, lock, rogue, warrior, druid, hunter, spriest, monk and dk all being able to silence. and when you combine silence and stun on casters, you get the complaints that YOU CAN'T CAST IN ARENA. I think a healthy change for the game would be to combine silence and stun in the DR category because you can get 10+ seconds a caster of just doing nothing while being violated.

ps, i'd give lock and mages their silence back with that change.

I totally agree, but Rogues are one of the worst offenders.  Glyph of Garrote and Cheap Shot need to both be removed.

I'd really love to see a game where melee had lower damage, but more 'kill CC' like stuns and silences.  Casters have to cast to do real damage, but their damage while casting is much higher than melee.  Casters also wouldn't really have any kill CC like stuns or silences.  This would make the two archetypes rely on eachother in an organic way, where the caster needs the melee to hold the person in place and get casts off, and the melee needs the caster's damage to be able to kill anything.  Cleavers alone wouldn't be able to do enough damage to kill something easily, and wizards alone wouldn't be able to hold anything in place for long enough to kill it.  And mobility needs to be toned way way the fuck down.  People are everywhere now.  Warlock Port used to be a solid defensive cooldown, but nowadays it feels like it hardly does anything against cleaves except let them heroic leap to you for 50k.  Blah.

I feel like the game was much much closer to this back in TBC and Wrath.  Cata and MoP have added way too many counter to the counter to the counter abilities to the game.

#47 Saikx

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

View PostNadagast, on 12 January 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

I totally agree, but Rogues are one of the worst offenders.  Glyph of Garrote and Cheap Shot need to both be removed.

I'd really love to see a game where melee had lower damage, but more 'kill CC' like stuns and silences.  Casters have to cast to do real damage, but their damage while casting is much higher than melee.  Casters also wouldn't really have any kill CC like stuns or silences.  This would make the two archetypes rely on eachother in an organic way, where the caster needs the melee to hold the person in place and get casts off, and the melee needs the caster's damage to be able to kill anything.  Cleavers alone wouldn't be able to do enough damage to kill something easily, and wizards alone wouldn't be able to hold anything in place for long enough to kill it.  And mobility needs to be toned way way the fuck down.  People are everywhere now.  Warlock Port used to be a solid defensive cooldown, but nowadays it feels like it hardly does anything against cleaves except let them heroic leap to you for 50k.  Blah.

I feel like the game was much much closer to this back in TBC and Wrath.  Cata and MoP have added way too many counter to the counter to the counter abilities to the game.

There was a suggestion like this on the WoW-Forums it basically said: "What if we let Caster CC let DR and Melee CC DR but Melee and Caster CC would not DR?"

Blizz Response: "This would force arena teams into caster/melee/healer, is that a good thing?"

Yes it is you fucking faggots at blizz hq...

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#48 originn

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostSaikx, on 12 January 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

There was a suggestion like this on the WoW-Forums it basically said: "What if we let Caster CC let DR and Melee CC DR but Melee and Caster CC would not DR?"

Blizz Response: "This would force arena teams into caster/melee/healer, is that a good thing?"

Yes it is you fucking faggots at blizz hq...
you speak words of wisdom

#49 phishy

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:09 AM

View PostNadagast, on 12 January 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

I totally agree, but Rogues are one of the worst offenders.  Glyph of Garrote and Cheap Shot need to both be removed.

I'd really love to see a game where melee had lower damage, but more 'kill CC' like stuns and silences.  Casters have to cast to do real damage, but their damage while casting is much higher than melee.  Casters also wouldn't really have any kill CC like stuns or silences.  This would make the two archetypes rely on eachother in an organic way, where the caster needs the melee to hold the person in place and get casts off, and the melee needs the caster's damage to be able to kill anything.  Cleavers alone wouldn't be able to do enough damage to kill something easily, and wizards alone wouldn't be able to hold anything in place for long enough to kill it.  And mobility needs to be toned way way the fuck down.  People are everywhere now.  Warlock Port used to be a solid defensive cooldown, but nowadays it feels like it hardly does anything against cleaves except let them heroic leap to you for 50k.  Blah.

I feel like the game was much much closer to this back in TBC and Wrath.  Cata and MoP have added way too many counter to the counter to the counter abilities to the game.

pretty much what i've been hoping for every new expansion, but each one goes further and further away from this metagame.

call me a TBC nostalgic, but if there was one thing that TBC nailed perfectly was the melee/caster/healer metagame that really brought a lot of balance. the main comps were WLD and RMP, with various comps similar to those two that were good, but not quite as good. all TBC needed to do as it progressed into wotlk was buff shaman/pally/hunter so that it could be in line with their counterparts. too much QQ about hybrid specs sucking tho and the endless arms race put us to where we are now.

back then it really was all about casters with the CC and burst while the melee had the sustained and stuns/short cd interrupts. admittedly, melee cleave really started in s4, but that had more to do with the strength of rogues than anything else. the real cleave began with TSG and wiz cleave arms race that still hasnt ended.

at nearly every stage of this game(and in lots of other games), class stacking tends to be overpowered and too strong. what we essentially have right now in MoP is class stacking because all melee have been homogenized and all casters have been homogenized. hell, you could even say that melee and casters alike have been homogenized to a degree. it's no longer a question of: which is more op, melee or caster? now it's just: which class is more op? rogues have been mostly shit so far this season. warriors have been fucking insane. outside of the demo insanity, locks have been subpar. mages have been clearly over the top. "healers are op!" well shamans yea, disc is downright horrible.

imo this game would at least be a lot more interesting if each class kept a lot of its "uniqueness" that it had in vanilla/TBC, instead of giving each class the same exact type of ability with a different name and animation.

#50 Thaya

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

Frankly I've enjoyed wizard comps a ton. I only played warlock in cataclysm so I didn't get to experience how it was in S7 and S8, but I really had fun with LSD, LSD2, MLD, MLS, fire MLS, shadowplay.

On the contrary I've always hated double melee even when I played DK and enh shaman myself. All double melee comps are just so damn limited and the tactics are scripted vs pretty much everything. There is space for finesse, but its mostly about not doing mistakes rather than clutch play, since the comps are so limited that if you fail to perform your zerg rush correctly you will lose. I can't imagine anybody enjoying that type of playstyle, but that's just personal opinion.

I felt like some melee/caster/healer comps suffer from the same problem, too. But that could be because warriors and dks were just so inferior most of cataclysm, especially in mobility.

I don't think the game would be better if it was only melee/ranged/healer.

Edited by Thaya, 13 January 2013 - 09:30 AM.

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#51 Nadagast

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:06 AM

God the last few posts in this thread have gotten me all nostalgic for a game where the arms race isn't totally out of control.  I feel like it's too late for WoW to return to a sense of normalcy in PvP...  I am now sad.  :(

I would give anything to have WoW return to the pre-arms race TBC or WotLK state.  The amount of class homogenization that's happened since Cata is also bumming me out.  :(

#52 deprivelol

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

The mongoloids at blizzards office are drooling all over there keyboards




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