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#1 stalebagel

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

With the upcoming silence nerf it seems apparent that frost bomb in 5.2 will be rendered mostly useless in compositions where the mage exists as the primary CCer (I.E. melee/mage/healer) as our only form of reliable crowd control will be reduced to deep freeze and ring of frost, with polymorph being consistently broken by our own bombs. Historically, mages have always been about control and coordinated burst but it feels as though this is slowly being taken away from us in the short span of this introductory season.  It seems more viable now then ever to simply train the mage and prevent him from ever casting a frost bomb and with the removal of our implied debuff protection I can't ever see frost bomb exploding naturally outside of our 30 second deep freeze.  We will most likely see the growing popularity of nether tempest, a specialization that revolves entirely around instant casts and ignoring CC altogether... surely this can't be the direction the community was so avid about.  Instead of nerfing a mechanic holding together the fragile existence of an already gimped frost bomb I challenge blizzard to focus on cooldowns such as presence of mind and alter time, abilities I believe everyone can agree need adjustments.  Like Affix said previously I can't expect sympathy but I would like everyone to recognize how brainless mechanics like nether tempest are and what the mage class is becoming.

View PostAvengelyne, on 17 September 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

I've actually made a lot of friends this season, I don't think anyone hates me or thinks i'm scum or thinks I cheat or thinks i'm toxic for the game. I'm definitely not a faggot as i've had a girlfriend for the past 3 years. I've also graduated College last year and working in my field currently so even if we come last place there it's not the end of the world, I got to meet up with friends I play with and against online and got to go to Manhattan on for a paid vactation.. And i'm a goddamn Ret paladin so there's a factor of respect given by the community for making it this far.

#2 Ermurazorqt

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

doesn't look like it will be fun to play mage in 5.2 indeed, especially with the rise of melee cleaves lately. With rogues becoming strong in 5.2 and holy paladins becoming the god healer there isn't much hope for casters outside of Shadow Priest.

#3 Saikx

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 09 January 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

You're in the wrong forum.

Also Mages are fine, have always been fine, and will continue to be fine.

I can't believe you are still posting after being torn apart by like 20 people because of you being an incredible retard. Do everyone a favor and stop posting.

Can some1 remove this idiot's access?

Edited by Saikx, 09 January 2013 - 04:10 PM.

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#4 Snipin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostSaikx, on 09 January 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I can't believe you are still posting after being torn apart by like 20 people because of you being an incredible retard. Do everyone a favor and stop posting.

Can some1 remove this idiot's access?
On the same topic aswell

#5 Nightmonkey

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:38 PM

View PostSaikx, on 09 January 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I can't believe you are still posting after being torn apart by like 20 people because of you being an incredible retard. Do everyone a favor and stop posting.

Can some1 remove this idiot's access?

Remove my access why?  Because I don't agree with you?

It wasn't 20 people, it was more like 5 angry Mages/people who play with Mages that were upset because I interrupted their circle jerking with a different perspective.

How about we revoke access for people posting topics about Mages in the general discussion forum instead.

Wouldn't it be great if there were a forum where you could just bro out with your fellow magus and not have those other pesky rat classes saying horrible things like "mages are fine?"  I have good news for you, there's a link below just for you and your kind.

http://www.arenajunk.../forum/17-mage/

Edited by Nightmonkey, 09 January 2013 - 05:42 PM.


#6 diglett23

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

I can't really remember a time when mages were a bad class, or weren't "viable". I think they will be fine with the upcoming changes, not as good as they are now. But still will be very good when paired with another CC oriented class such as Rogue or Shadow Priest.

#7 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

View Postdiglett23, on 09 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

I can't really remember a time when mages were a bad class, or weren't "viable". I think they will be fine with the upcoming changes, not as good as they are now. But still will be very good when paired with another CC oriented class such as Rogue or Shadow Priest.

rogue no, shadowpriest yes

no reason for a rogue to play with a mage when a shadowpriest does all that a mage does and better

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#8 leek

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:26 PM

I think we can attain haste levels high enough (especially when playing with SP/Moonkin + Ice Armor) for us to really start abusing the cooldown on dispel next season, or atleast that's what I'm hoping for! Being able to ditch out a lot of CC is always good, and while I agree some of the nerfs are a tad questionable I think that we, as Diggles mentioned, will be perfectly fine, as always.

#9 Nightmonkey

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

Leekzy and Diggles know whats up.  +1 for you guys

As far as Shadow Priests doing everything a Mage does, only better...Mages aren't the only class you could say that about.  Shadow Priest utility is incredibly strong, and I can't believe it hasn't been changed at all in the current 5.2 notes.

Here's to hoping there's another wave of 5.2 patch note changes.

#10 affix

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

View Postleek, on 09 January 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

I think we can attain haste levels high enough (especially when playing with SP/Moonkin + Ice Armor) for us to really start abusing the cooldown on dispel next season, or atleast that's what I'm hoping for! Being able to ditch out a lot of CC is always good, and while I agree some of the nerfs are a tad questionable I think that we, as Diggles mentioned, will be perfectly fine, as always.
You might get another 3-4% haste on next season's gear.  It might get use one extra tick of Nether Tempest, and reduce Poly's cast time by 0.05, or 1/1280th of dispel's cooldown.  I don't really see how that will noticeably change the relationship between Mage casts and the dispel cooldown.

Mages won't be worth playing in arenas next patch if the ICS change goes live.  All the other changes don't really matter.  Frostbolt still won't be good enough (increases average shattered damage by about 7k in my gear), Frost Bomb will continue to be too unreasonable to get off when it matters in most Mage comps, but without ICS the dominant cleaves will be even more dominant.  It's a joke :(

Edited by affix, 09 January 2013 - 08:22 PM.


#11 leek

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

View Postaffix, on 09 January 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

You might get another 3-4% haste on next season's gear.  It might get use one extra tick of Nether Tempest, and reduce Poly's cast time by 0.05, or 1/1280th of dispel's cooldown.  I don't really see how that will noticeably change the relationship between Mage casts and the dispel cooldown.

Well, some people (Jahmilli, Venruki etc) are sitting at 14-15% already. That makes for about 26-27% haste with Ice Armor/Aura. If we get 4% more that is still a substantial amount, kinda like back in WotLK where we had passive bloodlust in good gear, and I just hope that can bring us to the "supportish" caster we once were, not the one with the ridicolous constant pressure or the sickest burst damage in the game, but the one with reliable forms of damage for when we needed to burst.

I just hope that this coupled with the changes to many instant-CC's getting removed will make us able to get a lot more hardcast CC off, and hence we can really abuse the cooldown on dispel by swaping sheeps around constantly and creating pressure that way.

#12 Coldizzle

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

when doing shatreeplay mage armor still better then ice armor since you need more burst and it gives 10% mastery

Edited by Coldizzle, 09 January 2013 - 08:32 PM.


#13 Regent

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostSaikx, on 09 January 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I can't believe you are still posting after being torn apart by like 20 people because of you being an incredible retard. Do everyone a favor and stop posting.

Can some1 remove this idiot's access?

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#14 affix

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:01 PM

View Postleek, on 09 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Well, some people (Jahmilli, Venruki etc) are sitting at 14-15% already. That makes for about 26-27% haste with Ice Armor/Aura. If we get 4% more that is still a substantial amount, kinda like back in WotLK where we had passive bloodlust in good gear, and I just hope that can bring us to the "supportish" caster we once were, not the one with the ridicolous constant pressure or the sickest burst damage in the game, but the one with reliable forms of damage for when we needed to burst.
How much haste we already have has no bearing on how helpful an additional, smaller amount would be.  Haste obviously is very good with NT, but that helped offset the raw damage we had from frost bomb mastery stacking.  We don't really have any other compensatory respeccing/regearing options to make up for the imp CS removal.  Frostjaw has already been tried and is generally not very good at fulfilling the roles of dispel protection and kill attempt CC chains (it works alright for Scorch based fire builds)

Quote

I just hope that this coupled with the changes to many instant-CC's getting removed will make us able to get a lot more hardcast CC off, and hence we can really abuse the cooldown on dispel by swaping sheeps around constantly and creating pressure that way.
Most of that benefit has already been realized when we reforged haste instead of Mastery.

#15 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

View Postleek, on 09 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

the one with reliable forms of damage for when we needed to burst.

I just hope that this coupled with the changes to many instant-CC's getting removed will make us able to get a lot more hardcast CC off, and hence we can really abuse the cooldown on dispel by swaping sheeps around constantly and creating pressure that way.

our damage is now 100% reliant on procs, and its not exactly high burst:d

and they can remove as much instant cast cc as they want, that has nothing to do with us being unable to cast sheep, melee with 100% uptime and 1001 ways to stop casts are what prevent sheep going off, plus sheep on anything but the healer is pointless unless you have blanket counterspell to protect it (hehe) and all 3 bombs that our damage depends on break sheep.

the next nerf coming on the ptr is the probable removal of pom sheep/ring which was one of the final reliable ccs keeping us slightly playable, but apparantly a 1.5 min cooldown aoe warrior fear is fine and a 1.5 min instannt cast ring is overpowered

but i give up posting when retards like the warlock above exist, back to hitting 90 on spriest for next season

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 09 January 2013 - 11:00 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#16 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

u cant delete double posts anymore? :(

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 09 January 2013 - 10:59 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#17 leek

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 09 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

our damage is now 100% reliant on procs, and its not exactly high burst:d

and they can remove as much instant cast cc as they want, that has nothing to do with us being unable to cast sheep. the next nerf coming on the ptr is the probable removal of pom sheep/ring which was one of the final reliable ccs keeping us slightly playable, but apparantly a 1.5 min cooldown aoe warrior fear is fine and a 1.5 min instannt cast ring is overpowered

True, I was thinking of running frost bomb for shatterplay for example, 3k mastery from sham buff + new gear and Frost Bomb should be... somwhat reliable burst hopefully, atleast its a guaranteed frostfire bolt :<

#18 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:20 PM

View Postleek, on 09 January 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

True, I was thinking of running frost bomb for shatterplay for example, 3k mastery from sham buff + new gear and Frost Bomb should be... somwhat reliable burst hopefully, atleast its a guaranteed frostfire bolt :<
the dps that you are bursting with frostbomb just has to stand within 10 yards of the healer and the damage is enough to break sheeps/fears, and you have nothing to prevent the frostbomb being dispelled which just ties us even more to being carried by spriest cc

becoming more and more obvious that they are balancing around rbgs over arena, since the majority of pvp retards moved from arena to rbg now with how easy it is to get 2.4k+ by queuing at 2am into wintraders. Melee are weak and wizards are strong in rbgs so the wizard nerfs will keep on coming until melee start getting better representation in rbgs

this has the unfortunate side effect of removing wizards apart from spriests and possibly ele shamans next patch from 3s arena almost completely, but never mind about that eh :)

im curious, when a spriest is considering what to play with next season, what will playing with a mage bring over a melee/ele shaman that have far better on demand and sustained damage, and actual reliable cc

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 09 January 2013 - 11:25 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#19 stalebagel

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 09 January 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Remove my access why?  Because I don't agree with you?

It wasn't 20 people, it was more like 5 angry Mages/people who play with Mages that were upset because I interrupted their circle jerking with a different perspective.

How about we revoke access for people posting topics about Mages in the general discussion forum instead.

Wouldn't it be great if there were a forum where you could just bro out with your fellow magus and not have those other pesky rat classes saying horrible things like "mages are fine?"  I have good news for you, there's a link below just for you and your kind.

http://www.arenajunk.../forum/17-mage/
Last time I checked class forums weren't restricted to an individuals class so they can do exactly that, if you really think changing a sub-forum on this website is going to stop people from posting things like "mages are fine" then you have another thing coming buddy.  I understand I might of posted this on the wrong sub-forum but shouldn't we leave that correction up to the moderation or did it really bother you that much.

Edited by stalebagel, 09 January 2013 - 11:36 PM.

View PostAvengelyne, on 17 September 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

I've actually made a lot of friends this season, I don't think anyone hates me or thinks i'm scum or thinks I cheat or thinks i'm toxic for the game. I'm definitely not a faggot as i've had a girlfriend for the past 3 years. I've also graduated College last year and working in my field currently so even if we come last place there it's not the end of the world, I got to meet up with friends I play with and against online and got to go to Manhattan on for a paid vactation.. And i'm a goddamn Ret paladin so there's a factor of respect given by the community for making it this far.

#20 Snackumz

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

View Postdiglett23, on 09 January 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

I can't really remember a time when mages were a bad class, or weren't "viable". I think they will be fine with the upcoming changes, not as good as they are now. But still will be very good when paired with another CC oriented class such as Rogue or Shadow Priest.

warlocks have never been a bad class since i started playing (s8) and apparently have been gods since bc. maybe warlocks will be more desirable than mages next season :)




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