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New idea to fix the Casters-never-cast issue


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#21 Nisslol

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:50 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 08 January 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

so clueless

And who gave you access? Clueless fucktard, not like mage has been direct anti class to warrior all the way up to mop right? Come back to me when you can string a proper sentence together, looking at your post history makes me want to send a packet of condoms to your parents. I was just pointing out the ironic part of the post, I don't disagree warriors are in a mongo state, but so are mages shitting 80k lances out of their ass in their openers, not to mention they don't actually cast anymore.

I like the OP's idea, although double school healers (Shamans / Discs given they were in a proper state) would benefit too much from this compared to Druid, Monk and Pally.

Popped a molly, I'm sweating.
420

View PostRizzo, on 07 April 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

World of Cantcastunlessitsinstantcraft:  CCataclysm


View PostAyrasaurus, on 18 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

im an idiot


#22 kannetixx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostNisslol, on 08 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

And who gave you access? Clueless fucktard, not like mage has been direct anti class to warrior all the way up to mop right? Come back to me when you can string a proper sentence together, looking at your post history makes me want to send a packet of condoms to your parents. I was just pointing out the ironic part of the post, I don't disagree warriors are in a mongo state, but so are mages shitting 80k lances out of their ass in their openers, not to mention they don't actually cast anymore.

I like the OP's idea, although double school healers (Shamans / Discs given they were in a proper state) would benefit too much from this compared to Druid, Monk and Pally.

clueless. we dont cast anymore because your mongo class wont let us i like how you go after the one person who calls you clueless but kinda stay away from the other two who clearly agree your class is retarded with the amount of anti-caster non sense and damage you have
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#23 Nisslol

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

View Postkannetixx, on 08 January 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

clueless. we dont cast anymore because your mongo class wont let us i like how you go after the one person who calls you clueless but kinda stay away from the other two who clearly agree your class is retarded with the amount of anti-caster non sense and damage you have

You don't cast anymore because Blizzard made it not worth casting, Icelance does better damage than Frostbolt, has nothing to do with state of other classes tard. Also great reading comprehension, not like I just agreed with the fact wars are too good in lockdown terms. US is strong in you.

Popped a molly, I'm sweating.
420

View PostRizzo, on 07 April 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

World of Cantcastunlessitsinstantcraft:  CCataclysm


View PostAyrasaurus, on 18 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

im an idiot


#24 Regent

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostNisslol, on 08 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

You don't cast anymore because Blizzard made it not worth casting, Icelance does better damage than Frostbolt, has nothing to do with state of other classes tard. Also great reading comprehension, not like I just agreed with the fact wars are too good in lockdown terms. US is strong in you.

Don't worry, he flames everyone - even if they are agreeing with him.

This topic boils down to the same thing everyone has been saying. Hard casting sucks too much. Make instants weaker and make hardcasts more rewarding while reducing blankets/uninterruptable cc.

To sum it up: KFC #1, put them in hoojtown, and I play with hydra.

Edited by Regent, 08 January 2013 - 07:19 PM.


#25 Hyrmine

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:26 PM

It's too complicated and Blizzard wants to make WoW simple for casuals, they won't implement that but it sounds good, if this game was completely balanced around PvP.

#26 Djandawg

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:24 PM

Warriors need to lose disruptive shout, warbringer needs to dr with shockwave.
Ferals need to lose silence and one stun.
Assuming rogues, monks and dks become better, those should also lose some stuns/interrupts/silences.
Blizzard needs to understand, not every caster has the mobility of a mage, with the increased popularity of melee cleaves, it's quite possible to stop spell casting of the tunneled caster indefinitely.

Once this is done, holy paladin instant heals need to be nerfed, it doesn't make sense that the most defensive healer can produce better healing ouput with instants than a resto druid with all hots up.

Edited by Djandawg, 08 January 2013 - 08:25 PM.


#27 Hyrmine

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostJokerplex, on 08 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

In this thread i saw people complaining about hunters damage

One of the few classes in this game that can never kill a healer / or make them oom


xd
You just killed me while I was leveling, fuck you.

#28 affix

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostNisslol, on 08 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

And who gave you access? Clueless fucktard, not like mage has been direct anti class to warrior all the way up to mop right?
Warriors have been doing just fine against Mages in arenas since season 1, barring when they were awful against everything and wizards were OP in Cata.  Bringing duels in to the discussion is pointless.

#29 Hackattack3

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

View Postabtronic, on 08 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

A lot of the melee classes needs to get nerfed in terms of lockdown. BUT casting needs to be more rewarding. Not in any case should you benefit from jumping around spamming instants. Mages used to be such a cool class when it completely revovled around setting up a burst for you and your team. The way it is right now with nether tempest is just.........

SP is the only class that actually has to cast something, and see how strong they are. You can definitely make casters cast more without making them useless.

^ This absolutely

The amount of stuns/interrupts by melee is out of control.  Along with most of them having great gap closers the uptime is too high.

I cannot tell difference between a good and bad warrior above 1800 mmr.  

They need to decrease the stuns/interrupts and gap closers, compensate melee by giving more damage mitigation, either passive or on use.  To balance things out now decrease potency of instant casts for casters and buff casted spells.

Nether tempest is the most mongo thing I've seen on a caster in a long time.

#30 Hackattack3

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

View Postaffix, on 08 January 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Frost Bomb was rewarding to cast and everyone hated it because it apparently did too much damage.  Not saying I disagree, but I feel like as soon as Mages actually have spells worth casting, people complain about them.

There has to be a balance.  If instant spells are already really strong, buffing casted spells makes them OP (i.e. frost bomb)

They need to increase damage of casted spells while decreasing instants.

#31 Saikx

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:02 PM

View Postaffix, on 08 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Frost Bomb was rewarding to cast and everyone hated it because it apparently did too much damage.  Not saying I disagree, but I feel like as soon as Mages actually have spells worth casting, people complain about them.


Not everyone had fullgear/upgrades at that time, now after the nerfs I get like 80k crits with all CDs+ward up and just did a 54k frostbomb crit on a warrior with every cd/procc in the game...must be hard to play sit in def stance whole game still do unhealable damage while being not killable.

Frostbomb was fine the way it was, it was broken against retards and people without gear/upgrades, now its just a joke.

Greg Street@Ghostcrawler
@piotwitpio So you'd prefer warrior gods and rogue HKs like we have today?

Atleast GC seems to have learned something from me

Edited by Saikx, 08 January 2013 - 10:25 PM.

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#32 affix

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:32 PM

View PostHackattack3, on 08 January 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

There has to be a balance.  If instant spells are already really strong, buffing casted spells makes them OP (i.e. frost bomb)

They need to increase damage of casted spells while decreasing instants.
I don't think Mage instant do too much damage though.  Excluding nether tempest AoE spam, our sustained damage is lower than melee, same with our burst.  15k frostbolt hits are a joke compared to mortal strike.

How hard do you think a shattered ice lance should crit for against a full mal resil gemmed player with no damage reduction stance/form?  What about frost bomb?  Give numbers that, to you, sound reasonable.

Edited by affix, 08 January 2013 - 10:36 PM.


#33 Pritchard

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostDjandawg, on 08 January 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Warriors need to lose disruptive shout, warbringer needs to dr with shockwave.
Ferals need to lose silence and one stun.
Assuming rogues, monks and dks become better, those should also lose some stuns/interrupts/silences.
Blizzard needs to understand, not every caster has the mobility of a mage, with the increased popularity of melee cleaves, it's quite possible to stop spell casting of the tunneled caster indefinitely.

Once this is done, holy paladin instant heals need to be nerfed, it doesn't make sense that the most defensive healer can produce better healing ouput with instants than a resto druid with all hots up.

mages don't even really have THAT great of mobility anymore, if you blink a stun you are immediately put into another one, most classes have multiple ways to get out of roots/snares now, as well as us having less roots than before.

I would still like to see casting being rewarded, with instant healing and damage still being brought down.

I honestly think healing could still be brought down even more if damage were nerfed more, and we can get that wounded state gameplay.

#34 Hackattack3

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

View Posthairpiece, on 08 January 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

mages don't even really have THAT great of mobility anymore, if you blink a stun you are immediately put into another one, most classes have multiple ways to get out of roots/snares now, as well as us having less roots than before.

I would still like to see casting being rewarded, with instant healing and damage still being brought down.

I honestly think healing could still be brought down even more if damage were nerfed more, and we can get that wounded state gameplay.

If you think mage's mobility is not that great anymore, just think how other casters are doing.

#35 Hackattack3

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:07 AM

View Postaffix, on 08 January 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

I don't think Mage instant do too much damage though.  Excluding nether tempest AoE spam, our sustained damage is lower than melee, same with our burst.  15k frostbolt hits are a joke compared to mortal strike.

How hard do you think a shattered ice lance should crit for against a full mal resil gemmed player with no damage reduction stance/form?  What about frost bomb?  Give numbers that, to you, sound reasonable.

Thank you for asking,

I would like to disclose that I play resto (2s/3s) and balance (rbgs/pve) on my druid, no other 90s.  But I played a mage, hunter, and druid in cata.  With that said, I think it would be arrogant for me to claim I know exactly how a mage should be designed and how much damage they should do without being absolutely up to date on my knowledge about the class.

I would like to give my general feelings and concerns and with some additional input from you I would like to recommend some numbers.  

Sustained Damage:  One of the most over-rated numbers in my opinion "damage done".  You can create pressure on an opponent from spread damage, repeated burst, or swaps.  Frost mages are unique that they are one of the only caster classes that have marginal damage over time effects (assuming they don't go nether tempest).  Meaning all of the damage done is done over a short period of time.  So mages can put out more pressure than say an affliction warlock while doing less than 75% of the afflic lock's damage.  We should change the discussion from sustained damage to sustained pressure in the case of mages.

Burst:  Again it is not an apples to apples comparison looking at mage burst vs melee (warrior or hunter) burst.  Should mages crit as hard as warriors when warriors have longer CDs on their burst talents?  (3 min avatar)  Look at Tosan's latest video running MM hunter, he's ripping off 120k-180k power shots.  Why is no one bitching about crazy mm hunter burst?  b/c its on a longer CD and harder to pull off.  Power shot is a 1 min CD and 3 sec cast.  Imagine if frost bomb crit like power shot, it would be obscene b/c the 8 sec CD on frost bomb and easy setup.  

Looking at burst you have to look at several factors, not just the total amount of the crit, setup difficulty and cooldown matters.

The problem with mages pre-5.1 running frostbomb + fireblast glyph + icelance spam was how OFTEN not how hard they were bursting.  They could force defensive CDs every 30 sec without blowing their primary Cds to do it.

#36 Hackattack3

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:09 AM

View PostDjandawg, on 08 January 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Warriors need to lose disruptive shout, warbringer needs to dr with shockwave.
Ferals need to lose silence and one stun.
Assuming rogues, monks and dks become better, those should also lose some stuns/interrupts/silences.
Blizzard needs to understand, not every caster has the mobility of a mage, with the increased popularity of melee cleaves, it's quite possible to stop spell casting of the tunneled caster indefinitely.

Once this is done, holy paladin instant heals need to be nerfed, it doesn't make sense that the most defensive healer can produce better healing ouput with instants than a resto druid with all hots up.

^ This

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#37 ROKMODE

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:11 AM

View PostNisslol, on 08 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

And who gave you access? Clueless fucktard, not like mage has been direct anti class to warrior all the way up to mop right? Come back to me when you can string a proper sentence together, looking at your post history makes me want to send a packet of condoms to your parents. I was just pointing out the ironic part of the post, I don't disagree warriors are in a mongo state, but so are mages shitting 80k lances out of their ass in their openers, not to mention they don't actually cast anymore.

I like the OP's idea, although double school healers (Shamans / Discs given they were in a proper state) would benefit too much from this compared to Druid, Monk and Pally.
This post was really not needed. You made a funny ass post on page 1 which made fun of the stereotype of every warrior hating mages, which was funny. You don't have to respond to the nitpickers. A funny joke turned into another dick-size comparing war (only on arena junkies).

Also, props to Ctuhlu. . . one of the better posters on this website. Your posts are usually a good read, and more people should strive to post like you. (No I am not being sarcastic I swear!) Lopez was also a great poster during cataclysm. Affx too. Need more posters like you guys
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#38 Iambored

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:36 AM

An interesting mechanic that I doubt would ever work.

#39 Vilerose

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:30 AM

  • Remove interrupts + blankets.  It should be either/or.  CS and Spell Lock changes were a good start.  Silencing Shot and Spear Hand Strike need their silences removed as well.
  • Remove disrupting shout. No comment necessary.
  • Nerf instants.  Ice Lance could use a 20-25% damage nerf.  It also shouldn't proc off Frostfire Bolt, and should have a lower proc chance on Frozen Orb.  Same goes for some of the other classes' instant casts - both damage and healing.  Blizz can just give the instants some random secondary effect to make sure they're actually used in PvE.
  • Buff casts.  All else equal, Frostbolt should do more damage than Ice Lance.  Buff Lightning Bolt, etc. as well.
  • Reduce stun durations.  The proper way to go about it is to give the longer stuns the deep freeze treatment, by taking them off GCD but reducing duration by 1 second.
  • Remove some instant-cast AOE CCs.  Make POM not work with Ring of Frost, and reduce Ring of Frost cast to 1.25-1.5 seconds baseline (from 2seconds). Give Blinding Light a similarly short casting time.

Edited by Vilerose, 09 January 2013 - 02:38 AM.


#40 Braindance

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:34 AM

View PostROKMODE, on 09 January 2013 - 01:11 AM, said:

This post was really not needed. You made a funny ass post on page 1 which made fun of the stereotype of every warrior hating mages, which was funny. You don't have to respond to the nitpickers. A funny joke turned into another dick-size comparing war (only on arena junkies).

Also, props to Ctuhlu. . . one of the better posters on this website. Your posts are usually a good read, and more people should strive to post like you. (No I am not being sarcastic I swear!) Lopez was also a great poster during cataclysm. Affx too. Need more posters like you guys
lol

View Postjustchecking, on 10 November 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...




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