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Healers in the absence of silences (5.2)


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#81 Doggiedawgz

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:08 AM

View PostSaikx, on 04 January 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

when they nerf the mongoloid gods in plate that have alone 7 rotateable interrupts and fucking jesus cats that have a cyclone procc on every global they do then maybe but only maybe any mage would consider to fakecast.

Atm its just not worth it to fakecast since you will have to outfake ~10 rotateable interrupt abilities when mongoloid plategods or jesuscats are on you, which are btw in 99% of the teams you meet now GUESS WHY

inb4 feral/warrior defending their class, cy@ faggots

edit: oh and on topic, removing silence from mages will just make the gap between them and shadows even bigger, another indirect buff to shadowpriest I mean they arent god status enough yet(why would you ever take mage now when you can have a shadowbuddha in your team?), stupid mongoloids at blizzard sometimes I really wonder if they even play their own game or if they just calculate numbers
+1 finally someone to say that in good way -.-

#82 ROKMODE

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:25 AM

View PostHektiik, on 04 January 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

+ rep Clickclakmoo for signature
interestingly enough, this post is basically the same thing as making a post just to include a gif
I don't really get why people post just to say +rep. The person can see that you gave them rep anyway. I dislike opening threads with a highly liked post because there are always 500 people who post just to say +rep. Thanks though
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#83 Necrolina

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

To be fair this sounds a lot like the time frostbomb was nerfed. Casters were crying left and right, saying that not a single mage will succeed afterwards, yet mages are doing just fine.

This is not to say that the blanket nerf is amazing, far from it, I'd rather play a game where a single blanket is not enough to force cds on it's own, but can't we just wait and see what actually happens? :rolleyes:

#84 affix

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:20 AM

View PostNecrolina, on 05 January 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

To be fair this sounds a lot like the time frostbomb was nerfed. Casters were crying left and right, saying that not a single mage will succeed afterwards, yet mages are doing just fine.
We said we couldn't succeed with frost bomb in 3s, which is right, everyone went nether tempest... we just didn't know NT was viable, but here, there's no other option to succeed with.

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This is not to say that the blanket nerf is amazing, far from it, I'd rather play a game where a single blanket is not enough to force cds on it's own, but can't we just wait and see what actually happens? :rolleyes:
It's not :(  Can you describe a situation where you think that's the case?

#85 Nightmonkey

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:58 AM

View Postaffix, on 05 January 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

We said we couldn't succeed with frost bomb in 3s, which is right, everyone went nether tempest... we just didn't know NT was viable, but here, there's no other option to succeed with.


It's not :(  Can you describe a situation where you think that's the case?

You've never killed somebody inside 4 seconds before?  Try freezing them and casting a few ice lances.
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#86 Btothaloody

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:11 AM

View PostNightmonkey, on 04 January 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Mages and locks have been top classes for 11 seasons.
Funny how everyone on this site, and every other wow forum in existence people only remember the last 3 seasons.

Edited by Btothaloody, 05 January 2013 - 03:19 AM.


#87 Pritchard

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:11 AM

View PostNightmonkey, on 05 January 2013 - 02:58 AM, said:

You've never killed somebody inside 4 seconds before?  Try freezing them and casting a few ice lances.
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this isn't pve geared cata


also, when you resort to silly troll responses like these, you lose even more merit in your arguments that you have already pretty much completely bottomed out on.

Edited by hairpiece, 05 January 2013 - 03:12 AM.


#88 Nightmonkey

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:35 AM

View Posthairpiece, on 05 January 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

this isn't pve geared cata


also, when you resort to silly troll responses like these, you lose even more merit in your arguments that you have already pretty much completely bottomed out on.

I made a perfectly reasonable argument and no less than 4 people who play mages jumped my ass for it, so why bother being reasonable?  Trolling elicits the same response as saying anything negative about their class.  May as well just be like the rest of the people on this website and just troll or make thinly veiled posts in the general forum about my class getting nerfed.

Edited by Nightmonkey, 05 January 2013 - 03:46 AM.


#89 Pritchard

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 07:12 AM

View PostNightmonkey, on 05 January 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

I made a perfectly reasonable argument and no less than 4 people who play mages jumped my ass for it, so why bother being reasonable?  Trolling elicits the same response as saying anything negative about their class.  May as well just be like the rest of the people on this website and just troll or make thinly veiled posts in the general forum about my class getting nerfed.

plenty of other people besides mages called your arguments flawed and ridiculous.  Trolling does not elicit the same results if your argument actually makes sense.  People do not take trolls seriously, just as we don't take your arguments seriously even more so after trying to troll.

#90 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:43 AM

View PostNightmonkey, on 05 January 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

I made a perfectly reasonable argument and no less than 4 people who play mages jumped my ass for it, so why bother being reasonable?

View PostNightmonkey, on 04 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Two classes that have traditionally been among the strongest for the past 11 seasons are finally being brought in line with everyone else, and they are none too pleased about it.  One of my characters is a warlock, and if I have to get a nerf to see mages also get the nerf stick - I say bring it on.

xD so reasonable

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 05 January 2013 - 10:43 AM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#91

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

View PostTop, on 04 January 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:



Hpal definitely have to cast

u cant be srs :o

#92 Antitaleon

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostBraindance, on 04 January 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

Fakecasting was skill
1=spell

1 - 0.2 sec- adadada-1-0.1 sec-adadadadada-1-0.5 sec-adadadadadada-1-0.3 sec-kick misses-1

fuck ye it's hard

can you please stop posting
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3x glad 1x r1 logics

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#93 Nightmonkey

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

View Posthairpiece, on 05 January 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

plenty of other people besides mages called your arguments flawed and ridiculous.  Trolling does not elicit the same results if your argument actually makes sense.  People do not take trolls seriously, just as we don't take your arguments seriously even more so after trying to troll.

Yeah, people that play with Mages or have alts that are Mages.  My argument makes perfect sense - Nerf Mages.  Even with these changes, Mages will still be strong in arena.  You heard it here first.



View PostDizzeeyo, on 05 January 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

xD so reasonable


How is it not reasonable?  It's my opinion, and I'm confident if someone were to go back and go through representation statistics, most of what I said would hold true.  You simply do not like it because you play a Mage, so you tell me I'm being unreasonable because I said Mages should get nerfed right along with Warlocks.

I'll say it again, Mages and Warlocks have always been among the strongest classes - and at the very minimum at least viable.  Having a blanket silence on top of an interrupt is an absolutely retarded mechanic.  The ability should be an interrupt or silence, not both.  That's why it finally got nerfed.

Your complaint here should be that they gave you the interrupt part instead of the silence part, and you feel like you got the short end of the stick.  The bottom line is that your class will be perfectly fine without the silence if the change goes through.  As far as Warlocks go, Demo won't even notice this change, and the other specs just get even worse.

View PostTalbadar, on 04 January 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Not sure what game people have been playing when they confidently say things like this. There's a difference between being a viable class and being a top class. Warlocks, if any class, have always been viable. They have had their moments of being really strong, but it was always something different that was making them so strong. SL/SL, Chaos Bolt/Conflag, and Demo double Chaos wave were some of their stronger times. Frost Mages have been viable for most seasons. Yeah, they do high burst and have good survivability, but that doesn't mean they need to be nerfed. Frost has always been able to be dealt with. There have definitely been times where I die to one where I'm really frustrated because he Ice Lanced me for "X" number 3 times and I died, but every single class has annoying things like that (doesn't mean any of it needs to be changed). Case and point: Mages are not out of line. Improved Counterspell had to be dealt with, yes, but not with the removal of it. Reduce the duration of Imp CS to 3 seconds, and increase the cooldown of Counterspell to 24 seconds. Spell Lock was fine.



This is really ugly to even reply to. First of all, I don't agree with the first statement. There has been so many different control abilities added to MoP that Mages previous dominance in CC is being challenged. Druids, Mages, Priests, Paladins, Warriors, and Warlocks all bring plenty of control. I couldn't tell you which one is the strongest. Strongest damage? I mean, with Nether Tempest, their damage is consistently pretty high - sure, but I'm much more scared of other classes' damage.

It seems you're trying to say that deep-->blanket is unfair and shouldn't be possible. Yet again, where is the comparison to how other classes do things? How is Deep/blanket (both magical, mind you) any different from Warbringer-->Shockwave, Beam-->Vortex, Psychic Horror-->Silence, Garrote-->Kidney, Intimidation Stun-->Silencing Shot, Strangulate-->Gnaw Stun?

So basically what you're doing here is pointing a finger at Warlocks saying "mages might have always been viable but warlocks are the real offenders."  The thing is that I agree with you to an extent, but I think you're downplaying just how good Mages have been in pretty much every season so far.

But that's your whole "case and point?"  Saying that another class has consistently been just as strong or stronger isn't a very solid case for saying Mages don't need nerfed.

Also the thing that makes deep --> blanket so strong isn't because it's just a simple stun and silence.  You're right in saying that plenty of classes have similar CC.  However have you forgotten that while you are in deep freeze you basically take double damage from the Mage?  To my knowledge they are the only class that has a stun which also makes every spell crit, even those pesky ice lances you mentioned.

If deep freeze had a damage threshold like nova does, or simply stunned without considering the target frozen, I feel like then it would be in line with other class' abilities.  I think it's also worth pointing out that a lot of the other examples you posted are also things people constantly cry about.  Warbringer shockwave should really stick out to the Mages in here.

Edited by Nightmonkey, 05 January 2013 - 05:06 PM.


#94 Crawthz

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 05 January 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Also the thing that makes deep --> blanket so strong isn't because it's just a simple stun and silence.  You're right in saying that plenty of classes have similar CC.  However have you forgotten that while you are in deep freeze you basically take double damage from the Mage?  To my knowledge they are the only class that has a stun which also makes every spell crit, even those pesky ice lances you mentioned.

If deep freeze had a damage threshold like nova does, or simply stunned without considering the target frozen, I feel like then it would be in line with other class' abilities.  I think it's also worth pointing out that a lot of the other examples you posted are also things people constantly cry about.  Warbringer shockwave should really stick out to the Mages in here.

Mage does not do any damage outside of Deep and rng FFB. Every other class does constant damage all the time, but mages need to set up that window for themselves to do any kind of noticable damage. And that requires Deep Freeze. If Deep Freeze has an damage threshold on breaking, frostmages can not do damage at all. Frostbolt does 12k damage, 24k crit, 30k crit when shattering. Icelance does 4k, and with FoF/Shatter about 40-50k. This all into geared targets. This is why Deep Freeze can not have a damage treshold ever. , unless the mage class gets complete revamp and it's not going to happen in this expansion.
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#95 Classiks

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:56 PM

Ya know what, im so glad this shit is finally gone. Tired of fucking watching my toon flop over bc im blanket cs'd (and or spriest silenced following the blanket cs out of deep YA IT HAPPENS) out of a deep and my team is yelling at me to heal and i say " I CANT BLANKET CS OUT OF DEEP WHAT DO I DO I'M NOVAD STILL AYA ALREADY USED BATTLE MASTERS BUT ITS NOT ENOUGH FFS THIS SHIT GAME".....

Also if you think healers never cast, you're clearly blind. God I miss instant cast flash of lights.

-end rant.

p.s fuck you fire mages and tripple pyro go die in a hole.

#96 Nightmonkey

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:57 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 05 January 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Mage does not do any damage outside of Deep and rng FFB. Every other class does constant damage all the time, but mages need to set up that window for themselves to do any kind of noticable damage. And that requires Deep Freeze. If Deep Freeze has an damage threshold on breaking, frostmages can not do damage at all. Frostbolt does 12k damage, 24k crit, 30k crit when shattering. Icelance does 4k, and with FoF/Shatter about 40-50k. This all into geared targets. This is why Deep Freeze can not have a damage treshold ever. , unless the mage class gets complete revamp and it's not going to happen in this expansion.

This is a troll right?  Seriously mages don't do any damage outside of deep freeze?  They have other spells that give them the exact same modifiers on their damage as deep freeze does.

This is exactly the kind of bias and circle jerking that makes this forum irritating to read sometimes.  It happens with every class.

#97 Braindance

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:23 PM

View PostAntitaleon, on 05 January 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

can you please stop posting
No sorry

View PostZerstiren, on 14 August 2011 - 01:21 AM, said:

If you haven't +repped this guy, you are part of the problem.

View PostRenaissance_Man, on 31 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

View Postsimonfra1234, on 25 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

bro you got +rep'd by rapture...

#98 Pritchard

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 05 January 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

This is a troll right?  Seriously mages don't do any damage outside of deep freeze?  They have other spells that give them the exact same modifiers on their damage as deep freeze does.

This is exactly the kind of bias and circle jerking that makes this forum irritating to read sometimes.  It happens with every class.


rofl.


what makes this forum hard to read are posts like yours have been


If people actually had to cast in this game, there would be no deep->blanket because cs would be saved for a lockout.

And without that silence after deep the mage will never finish any healer off right now in the state of the game.  No silence = instantly picked back up.





And once again people are neglecting the real issue that damage and healing is still way overboard.  With less damage and less healing so the game is played wounded being at 35% in a blanket silence wouldnt be so big of a deal, it could be livable, but it also wouldn't mean the healer would be at 100% in 2 seconds.

#99 pripripriest

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:44 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 04 January 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

so in tbc, when mages had improved counterspell, fakecasting brought you a few seconds of casting time, but now in mop, when mages still have exactly the same improved counterspell, you cant tell the difference between good and shit mages anymore?

you r forgetting back then, as in wotlk, blanket was reduced by class talents like unbreakable will for priests. it was barely 2 secs vs 8 secs lock out. now it's just a flat win button as it grants 4 secs. kinda fuckin stupid. only thing i dislike in this change is that it doesn't fix the other ways to prevent casting... shit like double grip in melee range are so retarded. when trained u sometime feel like: "hey... can i fuckin play my character ? do u mind ?" cause u get into stuff like :  charge, stun, wave, grip, pummel mindfreeze disrupting shout, scatter, silence shot, pet stung, hoj, lolblind, rebuke kidney gouge garrote kick blind .... i mean... it's fuckin stupid really
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#100 Classiks

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:44 AM

Doesnt matter, mages are not the only ones who think they "deserve" the one shot if they target something while spamming (srsly spamming) every cc they have blankets 1/4th sheeps 1/4th fears whatever which is stupid, on the healer WHILE KILLING HIM!

need to gut half the cc in this game and remove instant cc and instant casts (to an extent atleast make them less powerful).

Edited by Classiks, 06 January 2013 - 12:46 AM.





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