120 replies to this topic

[Dizzeeyo]

averagepriestz, on 04 January 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Don't take things out of context. Back then everyone fakecasted, now, nobody does it. It was really important for casters to hit that 8 second lockout in TBC, because people did not get globalled in 2 seconds. Now, nobody gives a fuck.

You see my point?

well then you cant take things out of context either, in tbc casters actually had to cast to heal. the main reason mages started having to use counterspell as a blanket is a. because no1 casts anything anymore so saving counterspell for 40+ seconds just to land an interrupt that is only 2 seconds longer then a blanket is pointless, and b. because cc on something that isnt the healer is completely useless unless you can also blanket the healer at the same time. i promise you the majority of mages do not enjoy having to blanket counterspell to just get a sheep to stick for 4 seconds on a dps but that is the direction the game has moved in.

i see an incredible about of bias against blanket silences from holy paladins in particular, most likely because the only way wizardcleaves can get kills on holypalas now involves a blanket silence after a deep every 30 seconds. all this change does is continue to push mages and warlocks out of arenas, sp ele shaman resto druid/holypala will be the new god comp wizardcleave and melee cleave / kfc will reign supreme, but they both work really well with a holy pala so i can see why you wouldnt give a fuck about the game moving in a less chain cc more tunnel spam retarded damage whoever pops all cooldowns first and crits the most wins direction

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 04 January 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Dizzeeyo]

on the topic of cc in general i find it funny that next patch a single holy paladin will be able to cc a target by himself for longer then a mage and druid combined

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 04 January 2013 - 04:56 AM.

[Top]

hairpiece, on 04 January 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

same for druids yes, as they have always been a hot class, paladins in tbc and wrath always casted heals...so i don't know what you are on about pallies not casting in wrath.  Maybe when lots of damage wasn't going out sure, but any pressure and it was flash and hl spam.

also, its the complete opposite for paladins now, in wrath, the instant casts were procs, now the casted heals proc off of instant casts.

Ok I see where the discourse is.  If you're talking about things like prot/holy spamming flash, or maybe pal who weren't running spell cleave where the CS needed to go on the casters I can see what you're saying, but it wasn't like that for all comps or even the entirety of the wotlk.  I'll give you that, but not that the entire wotlk expansion paladins were some class that spammed castables like TBC.

Having said that, currently Paladins cast flash of light for amongst other things the 10% healing bonus.  It's not rare...burst comes out, your instas are used.  There are games where I have to cast multiple flash of light in a short timeframe because there is no other option.  Using DL/HLwith the proc (.8-.9s cast) is used regularly too.  The fact that repentence is a 15s cooldown and is used a lot gives you opportunities to actually catch a lockout as well.  The issue is, as has been previously mentioned, it's not rewarding to do so when the lockout barely does more than the silence by itself.

It's certainly not the case that paladins do not cast this xpack....

Edited by Top, 04 January 2013 - 05:11 AM.

[averagepriestz]

Uhm I play a Resto Druid.

http://eu.battle.net...nd/felic/simple

Big Paladin right there

[Dizzeeyo]

averagepriestz, on 04 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

Uhm I play a Resto Druid.

http://eu.battle.net...nd/felic/simple

Big Paladin right there

then why for the love of god are you complaining about blanket counterspell and spell lock so much when melee cleave/hunter brainless pop all cooldowns and zerg damage, hunter/holy pala cc and purge/dispel spam are all still in the game

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 04 January 2013 - 05:19 AM.

[averagepriestz]

Because 1 broken mechanic does not make the other one less broken? Counterspell should do what it says, counter a spell that is being cast. Not be a button you can press and get a 100% silence off. There should be some thinking behind it.

I would like to see fake casting meaning something again. It does not matter if he fakes, you just go like "oh well, only 4 second blanket, will just follow it up with a Deep and take him from 100-0".

You feel me? And don't talk about bias when you're playing a Mage.

[Dizzeeyo]

averagepriestz, on 04 January 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

Counterspell should do what it says, counter a spell that is being cast. Not be a button you can press and get a 100% silence off. There should be some thinking behind it.

I would like to see fake casting meaning something again. It does not matter if he fakes, you just go like "oh well, only 4 second blanket, will just follow it up with a Deep and take him from 100-0".

i already said this, but counterspell has been this way since level 60, if dying from 100-0 in a blanket counterspell is what you are complaining about then ask for changes to damage levels, not counterspell. if mages having to use counterspell for a blanket more and more over the 2 seconds longer interrupt then ask for changes to make every caster and healer have to cast more to make saving counterspell for an interrupt actually useful more then once a minute. understand where the problem is

averagepriestz, on 04 January 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

You feel me? And don't talk about bias when you're playing a Mage.

im biased towards enjoying a state of the game where chaining cc gets a kill and not just mindlessly zerging damage into a target, but changes like this make it clear that the second choice will continue to be the direction that the game is moving in, which is the main reason why my spriest is lvl 82 already

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 04 January 2013 - 05:40 AM.

[averagepriestz]

What do you mean? It's not like you lost all of your control. You actually just have to start communicating and casting CC's in order to get that free Gladiator title each season. Is that not for the better?

You prefer a game where you don't give a fuck if the enemy healer is casting or not, you just straight up blanket him and global his partner and then call out "Fucking amazing guys, nice CC there". Quick, lets bring Gag Order back into the game!

Honestly I think we want the same, less instant CC, more skillful play (as in setting it up, not just taking it all for granted). But you need to realise blanket-anything is a dumb mechanic.

[hairpiece]

averagepriestz, on 04 January 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

What do you mean? It's not like you lost all of your control. You actually just have to start communicating and casting CC's in order to get that free Gladiator title each season. Is that not for the better?

You prefer a game where you don't give a fuck if the enemy healer is casting or not, you just straight up blanket him and global his partner and then call out "Fucking amazing guys, nice CC there". Quick, lets bring Gag Order back into the game!

Honestly I think we want the same, less instant CC, more skillful play (as in setting it up, not just taking it all for granted). But you need to realise blanket-anything is a dumb mechanic.

i think what he is trying to say is why nerf them but not also nerf instant healing and damage?  nerfing silences is better for the game, but nerfing them without nerfing the other is not.  i don't see why they can't do both at the same time?

[Braindance]

Last time cc mattered it was year 2008 and most of you didn;t even have a gameboy. Every passing patch, this game is getting closer to bc whilst keeping the very few (but important) good part of wotlk. You are just not ready to realize it - you should hear ol'man Braindance.

[Dizzeeyo]

averagepriestz, on 04 January 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

What do you mean? It's not like you lost all of your control. You actually just have to start communicating and casting CC's in order to get that free Gladiator title each season. Is that not for the better?

You prefer a game where you don't give a fuck if the enemy healer is casting or not, you just straight up blanket him and global his partner and then call out "Fucking amazing guys, nice CC there". Quick, lets bring Gag Order back into the game!

Honestly I think we want the same, less instant CC, more skillful play (as in setting it up, not just taking it all for granted). But you need to realise blanket-anything is a dumb mechanic.

what i prefer is wotlk affliction mld style play, where if you ignored communication with cc chains you failed miserably and if you cced intelligently and skillfully you could make the game a permanent 2v3 and keep damage pressure rolling around cc drs until the other teams healer was overwhelmed. what cata introduced and mop has continued is the theme that any dispelable cc on a dps will not stick for longer then a second unless the healer on their team is hit simultaneously with either a second classes casted cc or some form of instant cast blanket cc to prevent a dispel. this leads to mages/locks being called brainless because they have to use their interupts as blankets more and more frequently, while ignoring the main reason for it.

since the end of wotlk the value of cc over zerg damage has steadly been degraded, next patch we have poly and cyclone sharing a dr, eliminating resto druid mage teams from arena, and i personally think that sooner rather then later poly and fear will also be put on the same dr. the game will then consist of getting some form of instant cast 8 second cc (why play with something that has to rely on unreliably casting an 8 second cc when you can play with something that has an instant cast cc if they are on the same dr) then some form of blanket silence after the cc (shadowpriest/hunter) and then 15 seconds of no cc cleave damage spam while people wait for "cc" and "blanket after cc" drs to end, melee cleave is happy because they can almost permanently control their characters, wizard cleave is dead outside of ele sp resto druid/holy pala, and the game becomes an instant cc and tunnel damage zerg, fun fun fun

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 04 January 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[stalebagel]

The reason improved counterspell is so valuable is because most casters/healers simply do not cast.  I understand where you are coming from Felic when you advocate a fake casting meta but you seriously need a reality check if you think the issue is the 4 second blanket silence.  If you wanna see a return of fake casting then you need to nerf the potency/availability of instant heals and damage while increasing the effectiveness of casted heals and damage as compensation.  Fake casting would largely gain popularity again as it would be impossible to keep teammates alive or do damage as a caster respectively without juking an enemies interrupt first but we won't see this happen as it would require a complete revamp of the majority of classes abilities and blizzard would never take the time to be that thorough, oh well maybe next expansion.

[Braindance]

Dizzeeyo, on 04 January 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

what i prefer is wotlk affliction mld style play, where if you ignored communication with cc chains you failed miserably and if you cced intelligently and skillfully you could make the game a permanent 2v3 and keep damage pressure rolling around cc drs until the other teams healer was overwhelmed. what cata introduced and mop has continued is the theme that any dispelable cc on a dps will not stick for longer then a second unless the healer on their team is hit simultaneously with either a second classes casted cc or some form of instant cast blanket cc to prevent a dispel. this leads to mages/locks being called brainless because they have to use their interupts as blankets more and more frequently, while ignoring the main reason for it.

since the end of wotlk the value of cc over zerg damage has steadly been degraded, next patch we have poly and cyclone sharing a dr, eliminating resto druid mage teams from arena, and i personally think that sooner rather then later poly and fear will also be put on the same dr. the game will then consist of getting some form of instant cast 8 second cc (why play with something that has to rely on unreliably casting an 8 second cc when you can play with something that has an instant cast cc if they are on the same dr) then some form of blanket silence after the cc (shadowpriest/hunter) and then 15 seconds of no cc cleave damage spam while people wait for "cc" and "blanket after cc" drs to end, melee cleave is happy because they can almost permanently control their characters, wizard cleave is dead outside of ele sp resto druid/holy pala, and the game becomes an instant cc and tunnel damage zerg, fun fun fun

Now, now you are exaggerating. Last time what you described as "cc chains" existed was the first month of s6. After that and the rise of rls no matter what you played and how you played it, you could pump damage into something from dusk to dawn with no cc and still manage to get top 0.5%.

[Zqae]

Haven't played the game in a while but honestly, they should have removed Improved Counterspell a long time ago. Mages had stupid amount of mobility and burst damage, they didn't need stupid instant cast CC on top of that.

Deep Freeze + Improved CS made mages ridiculously overpowered ever since WOTLK, I wonder why it took them so long to remove this stupid talent.

[zzyzzyzz]

averagepriestz, on 04 January 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Don't take things out of context. Back then everyone fakecasted, now, nobody does it. It was really important for casters to hit that 8 second lockout in TBC, because people did not get globalled in 2 seconds. Now, nobody gives a fuck.

You see my point?

yeh i even made a topic asking if anyone even fake casts anymore because i was wondering why i even did it anymore. not playing cata i cant speak to that expansion but i heard flat cs was a way of life for casters then so is it any surprise its a way of life now?

how do i stop a demo locks damage if he doesnt cast. same goes for mage and moonkin

cs used to mean momentum in some way. for a mage vs a lock it meant u didnt get feared so using it during your kill attempt was a good idea if you couldnt get feared in some way. vs ele shams locking lightning bolt stopped damage OR stopped shocks for AGAIN a dif function. now you deep and flat cs healer so no dispell. i remember when i played mage Spriest s8 and before i went for a kill with my deep, i would bait a cs. now u just do it and spam instants.

the games ruined and i think we all need to come to grips with this fact

Edited by zzyzzyzz, 04 January 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Dizzeeyo]

Zqae, on 04 January 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Haven't played the game in a while but honestly, they should have removed Improved Counterspell a long time ago. Mages had stupid amount of mobility and burst damage, they didn't need stupid instant cast CC on top of that.

Deep Freeze + Improved CS made mages ridiculously overpowered ever since WOTLK, I wonder why it took them so long to remove this stupid talent.

useful information xd

Braindance, on 04 January 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Now, now you are exaggerating. Last time what you described as "cc chains" existed was the first month of s6. After that and the rise of rls no matter what you played and how you played it, you could pump damage into something from dusk to dawn with no cc and still manage to get top 0.5%.

there is a reason i said affliction mld and not destro mld, you had to play affliction mld like i described it

vs certain comps like double healer you had to play destro mld like that as well, but you clearly didnt play either so ty for your opinion

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 04 January 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[Dizzeeyo]

Braindance, on 04 January 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Now, now you are exaggerating. Last time what you described as "cc chains" existed was the first month of s6. After that and the rise of rls no matter what you played and how you played it, you could pump damage into something from dusk to dawn with no cc and still manage to get top 0.5%.

there is a reason i said affliction mld and not destro mld

[Thaya]

Braindance, on 04 January 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Now, now you are exaggerating. Last time what you described as "cc chains" existed was the first month of s6. After that and the rise of rls no matter what you played and how you played it, you could pump damage into something from dusk to dawn with no cc and still manage to get top 0.5%.

This just isn't true.

Both of you are forgetting that burst and instant healing kept improving as the game progressed. Ofttimes giving a healer even a single global could result in losing a kill opportunity.

Edited by Thaya, 04 January 2013 - 09:49 AM.

[Pradafiend]

yo anyone wanna play wrath realm

[Djandawg]

I hate this change and hope it never goes through.  I think it will be one the changes this expansion that will make me play significantly less.
People need to understand a few things before they bring up the "fake casting was skill" argument:

-Reliable arena healer classes never cast anyway. Holy power / word of glory mechanic and unleash / short cd NS / healing totems that can be placed behind pillars etc are uninterruptable huge heals.
-They gave every healer aura mastery.

So not only they can keep people up with instant huge heals, they are immune to interrupts when they need to cast.Also it's not only heal prevention, blankets are used to prevent stuff like dispels, bop, SLT etc.
What's going to happen is,,comps with 2 melee, each having 4+ ways to stop healing, will tunnel healers freely because the other healer can't fall behind in healing and can always assist, freedom/dispels etc due to lack of blankets to stop.
.