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PvP Related Blues - December


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#1 Vanguards

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

PvP Related Blues - December

I like that they think Defensive Stance should be a stance used when a Warrior is being defensive rather than a Warrior will use it if there's even a 1% chance they're getting hit. Maybe that means they can do something to nerf Defensive Stance and buff Battle Stance. That's personally something I saw that I think both warriors and other players would enjoy. Something like taking 5% away from Defensive Stance and straight up buffing it to Battle Stance.

The blanket silence nerf seems to be pretty set judging from the way it's going. Personally less "instant" CCs I think is good for the game, though I find it hard to truly judge how good / bad this major change will be as a whole. 5.2 has such huge changes that it's hard to truly judge what's going to still be a problem for PvP.

Official Blizzard Quote:

PvP
on a general note if you can`t burst down a healer and you can`t oom a healer what are you supposed to do?
You should be able to oom a healer. Our plan remains to nerf PvP healing once we feel like burst is solved.

I hope you arent planning on leaving war/mage nerfs till 5.2 after hotfixing demo... would be incredibly annoying
We are concerned that trinket nerfs were not sufficient in curbing mage and warrior burst. Discussing options.
The nerf to PvP trinkets was pointless. You just nerfed those that didn't need it and kept burst still OP for those who did.
A trinket with 5000 stats can be 20% dps during the window. That is probably too high for anyone.
This was quiet dumb, 10% cooldown? Lets just go get a pve trinket. Also, you only shaved 2 - 3k off damage that still globals.
You lose a lot of PvP Power (5% DPS maybe) to get the PvE trinkets, but we will take steps if those show up in PvP a lot.

Just your fault for genius scaling. Why would you grants stats still anyway? Whats pvp power for?
PvP trinks designed years ago back when 1-2 classes had timers. Now everyone does. Burst trinkets are fine. Numbers just too high
Doesn't make sense, fine but "to high". Fine is how they were before. Just admit you didnt want to effect pve.
The concept of clicky trinkets in PvP is fine. The tuning of PvP trinkets giving 5000 stats is not.

Seeing mixed feedback about whether all PvP damage is too high or just a few overpowered spec or abilities still. Discuss if interested.
I'm not sure how to fix it...but hey, I bet I could if I was getting paid for it!
Fixing it is easy. Fixing it in the right way is not. It's really unfun in our opinions when you can't kill anyone.

PVP Power is only marginally better than regular main stats. Thats why it wont stop PVE trinkets in this case.
But look at the PvE trinkets. Your'e giving up passive PvP Power for expertise. Or you can have clicky secondaries.

Another Xpac which Casters R extremely dominant + warriors. They hv bttr cc, surv, damage vs. dks/rogues/rets. Caster > melee
In PvP? Most complaints these days are mage and warrior.

Honestly though, why do you feel like mages/locks should have both blanket+interrupt in one ability? Makes no sense at all.
Those two abilities are on our list as well.
I'm getting slightly interested in that list. If you can post a blog on some primary PvP balance concerns, awesome!
Yeah, probably good water cooler fodder. I still owe y'all one on alts as well. So busy...

The problem is blanket silences. With the amount of burst and silences, you die before you can cast anything.
Let's break that down more. Counterspell? Spell Lock? Silence? Anything else?

i was wondering how you feel about removing Hard CC from the game completely.. Would it cause balance issues?
We think it would cause fun issues. Knowing when to use the right CC feels smart. (Yes you can take it to extremes.)

What if CC worked so that there is a cast time for targets at range, but targets within melee brings it down to instant cast?
We'd like to shift more CCs to cast time overall. Instant anything should be rare and we've let it get too common.

Don't you think removing PVP Power would address many issues players have? Like burst and huge gap in gear between players?
Players would just use the PvE weapons which have about the same DPS potential.

I saw Blizzard apologise this morning. You guys need to read more ^^
Yep. I'll apologize right now that we have overpowered specs in PvP when MoP launched.
Mistakes happen; but beta feedback was ignored. You're still not even acting on PvP balance concerns!
Sure we are. We nerfed Chaos Wave just the other day. Look at the 5.1 patch notes, and I'd bet most of them are PvP nerfs.

Community is even making surveys for you ! Just make abilities do diff in PvP/PvE game fixed
Never understood the laser focus on this. Abilities do work differently between PvE and PvP -- just look at CC durations.

Please admit removing skrimish was a mistake as well and bring it back soonish :>
I do wish we had not removed it. As I said, not many players used it, but it's clear those players miss it dearly.

That's the PVE way of thinking. No serious PVPer will ever say that it should be gear=skill let alone gear>skill.
WoW is an RPG and rewards that improve your character are an RPG staple. Gear is normalized for tournaments where it makes sense.

Twitter: PVP is ^%^ - No, it doesn't. Forums: - no response. Seems you tweet, because you cant forum.
Not sure my posting in the forums worked. Players expected a detailed analysis of any passionate post and I don't have that time

hey there you ever going to do anything about the bots in pvp. oh wait you might avoid this question or give us the usual BS
It's something we take seriously, but the solutions aren't simple. Do you have suggestions of how to catch more of them?

what are your honest quick thoughts of why people think Disc pvp is weak?
Because they see mostly Resto shaman.

Upgradeable gear is okay for honor gear, but it shouldn't be for Conquest, as it'll take months to catch up. Thoughts?
Problem with catch up (PvE or PvP) is it encourages everyone to play less. We like playing more to feel like it's worth it.

Opinion on double healer comps in 3v3? Should they be viable? Saw 2600 double healer frost mage before today's Frost Bomb nerf
We are generally fine with non-standard comps as long as they are somewhat uncommon.

Greg, It looks like you are giving burst classes more advantages than dot classes with the mass PvP Power and 1 min trinket
More frequent small bursts is generally a nerf to burst strategies.
you explain the nerf part, Please ?
It is generally easier to counter being hit twice for 200K with a short break in between than one hit for 400K.

Wondering if you're aware of the current talk in arena: feral is OP, frost mage is dead, and healers are too weak; comment?
Feral does seem to be at the top of everyone's hit list now that mage, warrior and hunter are toned down.

I love how Druids can vanish and ShStep BETTER than rogues and about 6x more often... kudos man. you are a master of balance.
One ability compared to another ability doesn't scale to one class' comparison to another. It's about the whole package.

do u think melee damage is out of control atm? specifically feral/dk/warrior... esp w/ healing debuff its just unhealable...
Feral, maybe. DK no. Warriors have been nerfed a ton lately.

prot warrior stands and lets me get him to 35%, kills me (rogue). Having a fantastic time. What class do you want me to play?
Tanks aren't designed to be killed. That's why we don't push them into Arenas.

me and a lot of healers need to be talked off a ledge. I'm sure there's a reason behind the changes we just aren't seeing.
Strategically, burst and perma CC are the only options when healers can keep everyone up.
Disc priest anyone? Oh nevermind, they dont exist in arena anymore thanks to lazy blanket nerfs.
When healing is too powerful overall, the solution is not to let some specs still have healing that is too powerful.

Looking back to pre-BC, would you make the decision to add flying mounts again if you had the choice?
Personally, no, but they are pretty cool. Convenience is fun, but I don't like that they make the world so safe.

yes that maybe true, but you balance pvp around 3v3, where the most pvp is not played
It's a compromise. 5s might offer the best experience theoretically but 2s are super convenient. So we balance 3s the most.

Any thoughts on what WoW's greatest PvP success is?
So many ways to measure that. A good tournament? A balanced comp? A fun season?

Also, put all CC on same DR because when you are unable to control your character for 20 sec or more or until your dead is fun
We talk about that a lot, but it's a huge change probably better suited for an expansion.

With a few exceptions; healers most notably shouldn't be able to kill something 1vs1 if they can survive vs 2 dps.
Depends if the healer is out DPSing the DPS dude or just outlasting them.

Something I've always wondered is why caster CC has a damage threshold i.e. fear/hex, yet I can die in a single stun??
Dmg threshold = if you have a spell in flight or didn't retarget quickly enough. Stuns are supposed to allow damage.

Classes
Pls do something about BM Kill Command, it cost more focus than arcane shot and does less damage, as bm main spell, FIX pls!
Arcane hits for like 30K and Kill Command for like 60K. What are you seeing?

On Twitter: Briefly Wades Into the Feral-vs.-Rogue Scrum (Put on Your Riot Gear) http://t.co/rEhVzND7
I wasn't commenting on RvD, but on comparing one ability in a vacuum to another. R talents in 5.2 prob have the most changes.

So anyother Blanket healing nerf battle fatigue from 15% to 30%... Will ret paladins be compensated?
Your relative power to another healer will not change.

Posted Image Death Knight
Ghost, I've being playing DK since LK. Dont you think comparing to other calsse DK has low mobility and survival?
Mobility, yes, but you have Death Grip and ranged attacks. Survivability is low after CDs are burned.

No really, are you kidding? Because Blood Presence doesn't do crap for me but reduce my damage.
The context was not "Wow, Blood Pres make me immortal." The context was after blowing cooldowns, it can lower damage a little.

DKs have been screaming for qol changes for years. Then they screamed for the same changes on mop beta. Yup, ignored.
They screamed a lot before LK too and we listened a bit too well.

Posted Image Druid
Kinda like how feral charge has to have a stun or you wont end up at the target? Oh wait...
Wild Charge for bears does a root and for cats a snare. Should be close to the same result as far as ending up on target.

Posted Image Hunter
Blizz likes to say "bring the player, not the class". Give me a good reason to bring an MM hunter to an arena (rather than bm)
I promise a skilled dude on MM will beat a bad dude on BM. That was not true back when we came up with BTP and why we did.

Can you elaborate on the "hunters have too many buttons" thing? A lot of people enjoy it.. Do you intend to remove abilities?
But overall, we think hunters have too many situational abilities and cooldowns. # of rotational abilities is generally good.
I'm curious, whats your distinction between 1) situational abilities, 2) cooldowns and 3) rotational abilities?
Deterrence - situational. BW - cooldown. Arcane Shot - rotational.

Posted Image Mage
Critical Mass now multiplies the critical strike by 1.3 was 1.25. This is nothing in comparison to the -10/15 % dps nerf u did
The nerf was intended to be a nerf....

Make frostbolt benefit from Fingers of frost? Tone down lance dmg, and buffs frostbolt a bit?
Frostbolt does fine damage. It's just not instant.

Posted Image Monk
can u pls answer me? i see u hotfix mages with buffs can u do the same with monks in pvp? 2months and still no team for my ww
We don't think it's a simple matter of adjusting numbers for PvP monks.

Posted Image Priest
(PvE 25 hc) Doing more healing as Disc spamming PoH then Holy using a lot of spells feels so wrong. Mana & DA/SS is the issue.
Disc mastery lets Spirit Shell turn PoH into a HPS increase rather than "just" a bubble.

Posted Image Rogue
cancelled sub bc rogues werent fun (too slow big numbers doesn't =fun) seems like rogues are dying out http://t.co/bpObp6R2
I don't think our numbers show a decline like that, but rogue popularity is lower than we'd like.

Do you feel Subtlety suffers the same as what happened with Mage? Not underpowered, but underplayed skewing the numbers?
Potentially. If you take Combat for any cleave fight, then Mutilate for the others, you don't have a spec left.

Posted Image Shaman
Just read some of your tweets regarding Shaman from last month. Stop being a dick to your players. They have real concerns.
I've tried to address those concerns, but I feel at this point many of them are only interested in us undoing the Silence change.

Posted Image Warlock
since mages arcane brilliance gives spell power and critical strike, why doesn't warlocks dark intent give a second buff?
Because warlocks already have a second buff in Stamina.

Posted Image Warrior
Warriors choose Shockwave mostly out of fear of losing grip. Why not increase Charge stun & make it share DR w/Shockwave?
Charge needs to have a stun or you won't end up at the target. Having the Charge stun DR frequently kills Charge.

Do you think Shockwave is too oppressive in PvP? IMO: Should cost 10 Rage, deal 0 damage and have a 30 Sec CD. Thoughts?
We're sensitive to nerfing an ability that Prot has had forever. We have an idea we're trying out though to accomplish both.

You tell DKs to pop blood pres to lower taken damage, while losing damage meanwhile warriors lose nothing in defensive stance.
They are intended to lose rage. It may be that Second Wind is providing too much.

Of all the new abilities in MoP, Second Wind has hurt my enjoyment of the game more than any other. Just sayin.
It ended up much more powerful (and the rage part too) than it appeared to be during beta.

What is your current view on Second Wind?
Pretty sure it's overpowered in both healing and rage, but want to see if the recent PvP healing nerf fixes it.

Does the healing nerf really apply to a set % health tick talent though? 3% is 3% regardless, else the talent lies.
The Battle Fatigue debuff applies to all healing, even % self heals like Recuperate and SW. We'll check to test for sure.

Have you realised that every Warrior ever is using Defensive Stance in PVP yet? 25% less damage taken is to good to pass up.
Trying to figure out how accurate that is. Warriors say they only do it when being tunneled. Looking into it.
What would be an acceptable range though? 50% of the time in Defensive Stance? Only during Second Wind?
Ideally, when you're being offensive you're in Battle and when you're being beat on, you go Defensive.

When Warriors are decent and Viable, players spam QQ threads till we get nerfed back to CATA style Warrior... wheelchair mode.
Having said that, we agree with folks who felt warriors were too strong. We do want to keep them viable and fun though,
I think there is a tendency that once the biggest offenders are fixed then the next offender in line looks big.


#2 Saru93

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:25 AM

first hehe rofl hehe rofl rofl hehe

#3 Lovemama

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:25 AM

Posted ImageShaman
Just read some of your tweets regarding Shaman from last month. Stop being a dick to your players. They have real concerns.
- I've tried to address those concerns, but I feel at this point many of them are only interested in us undoing the Silence change.

Welcome to Paladin world, those silences yaaay.

#4

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:05 AM

frostbolt does fine dmg , ahahhaha 12k is def fine

#5 Coldizzle

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:46 AM

tone down lance dmg? lol

#6 angiejolie

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:57 AM

- prep/step change was really nice and needed, now just a slight survivability buff and rogues are going to be fine. tune down dmg to make up for it, nobody rolled rogue to play it like a braindead warrior anyways
- mages need more frost bolt damage so casting is rewarded
- sp need their off-heals nerfed by a shitload, and psyfiend is pretty damn annoying but nothing serious
- give dks something to help them from just being trained into the ground
- holy palas need something different than sac to avoid long-range cc, also need their own cc toned down
- buff the fuck out of disc priests already
- tone down ferals.....
- buff monks and affliction

what the fuck is the problem?

shamans are still fine after silence nerf, mages current playstyle is so shit but can easily be fixed, rogues just need shorter/more effective cds. warrior shockwave nerf is good, just fix cd stacking and gg.

#7 Celephia

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:35 AM

what are your honest quick thoughts of why people think Disc pvp is weak?
Because they see mostly Resto shaman.


sounds legits

#8 Yuuzikha

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:10 PM

I love how they address how bad Discs are right now

#9 Zeiyo

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:16 AM

do u think melee damage is out of control atm? specifically feral/dk/warrior... esp w/ healing debuff its just unhealable...
Feral, maybe. DK no. Warriors have been nerfed a ton lately.

its alrite guys warriors have been nerfed a ton so there damage is fine now. LOL.

Edited by Zeiyo, 03 January 2013 - 08:17 AM.


#10 averagepriestz

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:18 AM

It is really wierd that they have not done anything to CD stacking. Considering how simple it would be, and how marginal a difference it would be in PvE.

I mean. Recklessness and Skull Banner. Hardly makes sense, does it.




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