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The honor system is in need of a remake


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#21 sounds

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

View PostCreepStatus, on 28 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

You can't really put the blame on the people that bot

Uh.. yes you can.. :confused:

#22 phunk

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

why not make it so that you unlock the possibility to get a weapon once you have won x amount of bgs? Bots don't win so it would take a hell lot longer.

#23 Nisslol

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:24 PM

Blizzard forced people into botting, you really can't blame people for having their "buddies" farm "honor". What sort of fucking stupid concept is it anyway, spam X amounts of shity boring BGs just so you can start doing something more fun, aka arena.

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View PostRizzo, on 07 April 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

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View PostAyrasaurus, on 18 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

im an idiot


#24 Kriff

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

I think they just need to have honor weapons available, and then make all the conquest gear very slight upgrades, and then remove the added upgrade system. I believe the difference between a fully honor geared player and a fully conquest geared player (even with T2) should be at most an overall difference of 15% ish for every stat. This still motivates people to fully gear themselves so that they can have a 15% overall stat increase (maybe even 10% if 15% is too high) while still encouraging season late-comers.

They could even keep the upgrade system, just make it so that the base, non-upgraded honor gear (+ new honor weapon) is only 10-15% different statwise than a fully geared T2 player. Although this would get rid of those fun one shots in BGs, if you truly are better then you should win anyway.

#25 Thaya

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:38 PM

How can you say that Blizzard forces you into bgs if the last time you needed honor pieces was TBC (remember when there was no offsets for arena points?), when they stopped perma banning people for using hacks/bots (the worst that can happen to your account for hb is 72h ban), and when they quite literally don't give a fuck that at 4 AM and later there are full bot vs bot bgs with 0 real players in them (it's actually very hard to get a ban for botting unless you're doing herbs/ore)?

It's also ridiculously easy for them to kill off injection bots like HB is. It's using the exact same method that can become detectable literally any time via a Warden update, but they haven't made it detectable for like 4 years now.
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#26 averagepriestz

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

View PostThaya, on 28 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

How can you say that Blizzard forces you into bgs if the last time you needed honor pieces was TBC (remember when there was no offsets for arena points?), when they stopped perma banning people for using hacks/bots (the worst that can happen to your account for hb is 72h ban), and when they quite literally don't give a fuck that at 4 AM and later there are full bot vs bot bgs with 0 real players in them (it's actually very hard to get a ban for botting unless you're doing herbs/ore)?

It's also ridiculously easy for them to kill off injection bots like HB is. It's using the exact same method that can become detectable literally any time via a Warden update, but they haven't made it detectable for like 4 years now.

They do ban and close accounts. Quite a lot each day, but a lot of them get the bans lifted by calling them and claiming they had no idea. They grind them for using all kinds of profiles. Levelling, grinding, and as you mentioned, materials.

Also, it is not ridiculously easy for them to kill of HB, otherwise you don't think they would have done it, instead of waiting years for a lawsuit to end? They can't track who is using it with Warden, that is the problem.

#27 averagepriestz

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

View Postsounds_, on 28 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Uh.. yes you can.. :confused:

How do you blame bots? WoW has been out for 8 years, and some of us are moving on with our lives. Having 1 or 2 alts, a job or education (perhaps both) to take care of, wanting to do some casual PvE aswell and stay competitive in PvP at the same time. The entire game has changed, but the way you farm honor hasn't. Each season, I have to grind 30k honor on 3 different toons. This would take me perhaps 1 month if I had to do it in my own time. Not to mention the fact that I have probably close to half a million kills. It is a repetitive ritual I have done for 8 seasons on my own. There is a reason chinese firms offer it, and people buy it. If I want to stay competitive, I need the honorgear the first two weeks, on all my toons and now with the upgrade, I need it even more.

TL;DR Blizzard has changed how PvP is a lot, but have not touched how farming honour works. It is an outdated mechanic going back 6 years and with each new update (MoP, upgradable gear) it is getting harder and harder to do. Yes, you can blame Blizzard for forcing people to using bots. The oppertunity cost is simply too great to be doing it on your own, rather spend 25 euros for a bot.

#28 Nycto

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

View PostThaya, on 28 December 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

Fuck you.

I used to love doing random battlegrounds, just for fun, back in WotLK and TBC when it wasn't just 70% bots on both sides, and sometimes even 100% bot teams late at night. Botting removed that entire aspect out of the game.
I'm curious, how did bots remove that aspect? If 70% of the players are bots, and you remove them, you are going to have to wait like 15+ minutes for a battlegroup queue pop. Bots didn't stop you being able to play a random bg,

#29 averagepriestz

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

Nycto that is not really true. He meant he liked facing other players, just spending maybe half an hour here and there. I remember it too, you got some new gear, and u wanted to test it against other players. If people couldn't bot it, they would be forced to farm the gear themselves, and they would. Queues might be slightly longer, but not by a lot.

#30 Nycto

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

I guess i'm different, i've never enjoyed battlegrounds. I've always found them to be the same as farming gear from heroics, a completely pointless and irritating task. I can see what you mean but honestly the same would apply to just hitting a bot, i mean let's be honest, bots are better than a lot of people i've met in bgs, whether they are very new players, players who have just hit max level and are unaware of spells or players who just want to watch their sword swing to see how it looks or something, how does killing them to killing a bot make the bg worse? I mean some of these bgs you are losing it for your team by trying to fight anyway.

#31 Hazzah

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:38 PM

There are a lot of good suggestions here, but what does it matter when Blizzard don't give a first fuck about what the PvP community suggests?

I just can't seem to think of one good reason for why there'd be a "total season earned"-requirement on PvP weapons, it just doesn't make any sense to me whichever way I go about it.

Quite honestly, it's like they consciously make these ridiculous decisions and designs just to piss the PvP community off. I can't remember the last time our outcries were heard, let alone dealt with, and it blows my mind how a company that's steadily declining in subscribers fail to see what they're doing wrong. Once every fucking leap year you might get a blue response on WoW forums regarding an actual issue, and all they can say is "lols proplem duely noted n we investergates it now XD"
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#32 Hackattack3

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:09 PM

Couple of Suggestions for improving honor system:


1. this is a crazy one, but be more patient?  If you win a daily BG that's a pretty solid amount of honor (400~500).  It's pretty absurd for people to expect to have full pvp gear the week they hit 90.  Calm down, go outside and get some fresh air, and pace yourself.  #1 reason people quit the game is burn out.

2.  Remove conquest requirement for weapons.  It's mandatory for the beginning of the season so people aren't running around with t2 weapons chopping down people in blues, but we're past that.  Certain classes are completely useless without at least t1 weapon.

3.  Make conquest points bind on account.  If my druid is 2/2 mal full pieces, I should be able to funnel conquest points to my monk alt.

4.  Issue with boting is that the quality of play within a BG does not reflect the amount of honor you earn.  You get a set amount for a loss, set amount for a win.  They should find a way to reward honor based on battleground specific objectives.  If I go 21-0 Kbs, lead in damage done, and have 4 flag returns I should be rewarded bonus honor.  You can dominate a BG and still lose b/c 70% of your team is Bots, which lowers the incentive to try or play well.

#33 Nisslol

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:23 PM

View PostThaya, on 28 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

How can you say that Blizzard forces you into bgs if the last time you needed honor pieces was TBC (remember when there was no offsets for arena points?), when they stopped perma banning people for using hacks/bots (the worst that can happen to your account for hb is 72h ban), and when they quite literally don't give a fuck that at 4 AM and later there are full bot vs bot bgs with 0 real players in them (it's actually very hard to get a ban for botting unless you're doing herbs/ore)?

It's also ridiculously easy for them to kill off injection bots like HB is. It's using the exact same method that can become detectable literally any time via a Warden update, but they haven't made it detectable for like 4 years now.

Mind elaborating that part? Or have you only just found out about Dreadful gear?

Edited by Nisslol, 28 December 2012 - 09:26 PM.

Popped a molly, I'm sweating.
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View PostRizzo, on 07 April 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

World of Cantcastunlessitsinstantcraft:  CCataclysm


View PostAyrasaurus, on 18 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

im an idiot


#34 Hyrmine

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

You are right. Honor system is completely trash and too time consuming. Especially since you're going to have to BG with 90% bots at all times. With all this upgrade bullshit and fuck knows what else arena is becoming really time consuming. Maybe they are trying to boost player's online time but it's really just bullshit. They should make gearing easier to boost competition and more people in the ladder actually caring.

#35 GrieverZ

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:05 PM

View Postaveragepriestz, on 28 December 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

How do you blame bots? WoW has been out for 8 years, and some of us are moving on with our lives. Having 1 or 2 alts, a job or education (perhaps both) to take care of, wanting to do some casual PvE aswell and stay competitive in PvP at the same time. The entire game has changed, but the way you farm honor hasn't. Each season, I have to grind 30k honor on 3 different toons. This would take me perhaps 1 month if I had to do it in my own time. Not to mention the fact that I have probably close to half a million kills. It is a repetitive ritual I have done for 8 seasons on my own. There is a reason chinese firms offer it, and people buy it. If I want to stay competitive, I need the honorgear the first two weeks, on all my toons and now with the upgrade, I need it even more.

TL;DR Blizzard has changed how PvP is a lot, but have not touched how farming honour works. It is an outdated mechanic going back 6 years and with each new update (MoP, upgradable gear) it is getting harder and harder to do. Yes, you can blame Blizzard for forcing people to using bots. The oppertunity cost is simply too great to be doing it on your own, rather spend 25 euros for a bot.

If you don't have the time to gear up 3 toons, don't play 3 toons. Hard concept i know. Thats what i did instead of ruining the game for others. Really hoping Blizzard would finally start banning people and keeping it this way.

Pretty selfish to say "i don't like doing random bgs so its fine to bot". A lot of people do, and they don't specially enjoy playing with bots. I know i used to do random bgs all the time in BC and WoLTK and was having a lot of fun in them, to each their own i guess.

Edited by GrieverZ, 28 December 2012 - 10:08 PM.


#36 Hyrmine

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

If you have to bot to play this game quit, it's that simple. If you don't agree with things that you obviously don't like the game. Go play a game that cuts out gear farming like GW2 but instead of rewarding ANet for their idea of cutting out the farming and playing their game you decide to stay on WoW and bot but no worries, keep making posts why WoW is shit since staying on WoW completely sends the devs who are focused on money the right message. Never mind, forgot this is a gaming forum, shouldn't expect anyone to make sense.

#37 averagepriestz

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:34 PM

View PostGrieverZ, on 28 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

If you don't have the time to gear up 3 toons, don't play 3 toons. Hard concept i know. Thats what i did instead of ruining the game for others. Really hoping Blizzard would finally start banning people and keeping it this way.

Pretty selfish to say "i don't like doing random bgs so its fine to bot". A lot of people do, and they don't specially enjoy playing with bots. I know i used to do random bgs all the time in BC and WoLTK and was having a lot of fun in them, to each their own i guess.

But I would like to play 3 toons, so I can get some variance to keep the game fun. I like to learn new classes, but the only way is sadly if I use a bot to gear them up. You're defending an old and outdated mechanic, you should wake up and smell the coffee. When things get too time consuming, boring, a system is flawed, people start to find ways around it. It happens every day in the real world. A problem occurs and it escalates, in the end, either the company responsible fixes it or the consumers find ways to work around it. So yes, I feel they have left BG's out for far too long, resulting in the massive increase of bots - part of the blame is to put on Blizzard.

Instead of banning people (I can asure you they won't ban thousands that could end up in the early hundreds of thousands), they should find a way to keep the players interested and paying. This game is not near the same as GW2.

Edit: @Hyrmine. I think the only one not making sense here is you, looks like you had a bad day. People bot because they feel they are forced to do so, in order to actually play the game without having a disadvantage.

Edited by averagepriestz, 28 December 2012 - 10:37 PM.


#38 sounds

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

View Postaveragepriestz, on 28 December 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

snip

I don't think he's defending it at all, all he said was if you can't afford to invest the time to maintain several toons then don't. There's no reason to ruin a part of the game for people who genuinely enjoy BGs.

Yes they should revamp the honor system, but when you start getting games where the majority of the players aren't actually playing themselves what's the point of regular Joe even bothering to try?

#39 Nisslol

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

Honestly I don't understand what you're whining about in terms of botting. Bots actually use optimal rotation and at least 7/10 times they'll be playing better than random shitters that you meet in your battleground that you "oh-so-adore" doing. Face it, you only like doing random bgs, because you like to think your penis is longer when you have 20-0 and you're top of damage, except everyone else are dribbling, casual mongoloids that are doing bgs for god knows what reason.

I'm a big botting defender, it's a good solution to cut out the shit part out of the game so you can actually enjoy the ones you want to enjoy. Bandaid solution to a problem caused by game developers smoking too much crack. But that's only my point of view on it.

Popped a molly, I'm sweating.
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View PostRizzo, on 07 April 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

World of Cantcastunlessitsinstantcraft:  CCataclysm


View PostAyrasaurus, on 18 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

im an idiot


#40 Libyanator

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

God bless HB
[3:54:02 AM] Obelodalix: When it's full on flop
[3:54:06 AM] Obelodalix: Mine just gets lost
[3:54:09 AM] Obelodalix: in a sea of balls
[3:54:11 AM] Obelodalix: cuz I'm danny hart




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