20 replies to this topic

[Snuggli]

Hey guys,

After reading patch notes again I noticed that Cenarion Ward was getting a pretty sick buff. The base heal gets doubled as does the scaling. That brings it up to a 30-35k HoT (pure guesstimate) which ticks every 2s for 6s. Overall it'd be turned into a 90-105k heal over 6 seconds.

Currently, NS-HT heals about 110k.

Arguably, NS would still be better because when it crits, it crits big. But, NS is a 1 minute CD and CW is a 30s CD which means it'll be up twice as often. Resto Druid output is pretty low in comparison to sham/pala and swapping from NS to CW might make us competitive in output.

Also, a pretty big thing to keep in mind: Cenarion Ward can be used while silenced AND locked out. This is actually pretty sick, and i'm not sure how many people know about it. It can easily be a game changer especially against cleaves where you might have to be faking 2-3 kicks.

Purely theorizing here, but I think if all stays as it is I will definitely be trying out this talent. NS-Clone does have it's uses, but once it shares DR with poly/trap/hex etc, its only use will be NS-cloning DPS.

Am I being completely retarded? Or is it actually worth considering moving to CW for some comps that are pretty CC-heavy and won't need any clutch NS clones?



Note: I'm ignoring MS/battle fatigue in all the numbers in this.

Related 5.2 notes:

Official Blizzard Quote:

• Cyclone now has a 30 second cooldown for Feral Druids. In addition, it will now share diminishing returns with Banish, Seduction, Bind Elemental, Hex, Freezing Trap,Wyvern Sting, Gouge, Sap, Hibernate, Paralysis, Polymorph, Ring of Frost, Repentance, and Quaking Palm.

• Cenarion Ward now grants 100% increased healing.

(6,174 base heal + 57% spell power to 12,349 base heal + 104% spell power)

Edited by Snuggli, 27 December 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[Renaissance_Man]

Yeah it's actually an interesting thought, and I've been speculating about it myself. If the cyclone change does indeed go through, the offensive utility of NS may not be quite as potent, and any increase in healing druids can grab will be extremely beneficial.

[Jacquelol]

I do think if it does bring nice healing output, it may ease the pain of healing as restodruid due to it being a reliable heal and more often applyable.

[Clickerz]

Ward is usable while silenced :0

[Snuggli]

Clickerz, on 27 December 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Ward is usable while silenced :0

yeah, and completely locked out of your healing tree. Pretty sick actually

[averagepriestz]

Who fakes casts anymore?

Actually, who kicks anymore? Stun, Freeze, something, X, Dead.

[Bigmoran]

NS Cyclone is far too powerful of a mechanic to ever give up for extra healing.

[Zerud]

Definitely trying in out in 5.2

100k heal on a 30 sec cd sounds pretty legit

[Snuggli]

Bigmoran, on 28 December 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

NS Cyclone is far too powerful of a mechanic to ever give up for extra healing.

I use NS for clone maybe 1 in every 10 games. The other 9 games I have to use it for healing. And that NS clone is normally on the healer - which would (in 5.2) be DR'd because I play with a mage.

[Renaissance_Man]

Snuggli, on 28 December 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

I use NS for clone maybe 1 in every 10 games. The other 9 games I have to use it for healing. And that NS clone is normally on the healer - which would (in 5.2) be DR'd because I play with a mage.

That's pretty bad logic to be honest. I guarantee that in at least half of those cases, NS cloning a dps to stop damage would've been far more effective than the 100k healing you get from NSing a healing touch.

[Hackattack3]

^ I agree with poster above, I would say 50% of my NS clones are to stop incoming damage, i.e. cloning war w/ CDs up.  It's also only way to get a hibernate off on a good player, feral or resto.

I still gave +rep to OP due to fact that it's cast-able while silenced or locked out.

IF 5.2 changes go through, we will see far less rdruids and ferals, meaning NS hibernate will lose its effectiveness.  

I feel that typhoon + mass entanglement is a more interesting question in 5.2, since both CDS are now 30 sec.  I will def go mass entanglement + displacer beast macro for maps w/o Z-axis.

I'm also going back to heart of wild over Nature's Vigil, 6% stam & int is pretty solid.

Anyone know what new treant numbers look like?  It reads like they're gettin a pretty significant buff.

[Snuggli]

Renaissance_Man, on 28 December 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

That's pretty bad logic to be honest. I guarantee that in at least half of those cases, NS cloning a dps to stop damage would've been far more effective than the 100k healing you get from NSing a healing touch.

Strictly talking about 3s, i find the 100k burst heal from NS-HT enough to keep up and survive. I find nsclone pretty risky cause they'll almost always trinket it (if they have trinket up) and their partner isn't CC'd at all, so nothing is stopping the partner from finishing you off.

100k-200k(if crit) instaheal is almost always enough of a heal to give my partners time to peel. If someone trinkets your NS-Clone they'll probably force another CD of yours.

It's all situational though.


edit: And in 5.2, ns-cloning a DPS will be worthless if they have been poly'd, hexxed, gouged, rof'd, sapped or repped in the 15-20s before hand, in which case the clone would Dr. (or there is any chance of them getting any of those CCs as peels)

Edited by Snuggli, 28 December 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[Jacquelol]

ive used my NS for cyclone mostly, like cyclone dps to stop damage so I can top of myself and my team.

[Hackattack3]

Snuggli, on 28 December 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

Strictly talking about 3s, i find the 100k burst heal from NS-HT enough to keep up and survive. I find nsclone pretty risky cause they'll almost always trinket it (if they have trinket up) and their partner isn't CC'd at all, so nothing is stopping the partner from finishing you off.

100k-200k(if crit) instaheal is almost always enough of a heal to give my partners time to peel. If someone trinkets your NS-Clone they'll probably force another CD of yours.

It's all situational though.


edit: And in 5.2, ns-cloning a DPS will be worthless if they have been poly'd, hexxed, gouged, rof'd, sapped or repped in the 15-20s before hand, in which case the clone would Dr. (or there is any chance of them getting any of those CCs as peels)

That's why people use gladius.  If a warrior has trinket down and pops Cds, NS clone will save 500k-1mil damage.  That's better in my mind that some shitty 100k heal.

If trinket is up, get ready to typhoon + root, or disorient into cyclone right after he trinkets.  They will almost always trinket when they just popped CDs.

[Dizzeeyo]

Hackattack3, on 30 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

If a warrior has trinket down and pops Cds, NS clone will save 500k-1mil damage.  That's better in my mind that some shitty 100k heal.

in a nutshell why the cyclone dr change should only be for ferals / boomkins

[Hackattack3]

^ Absolutely

If the DR change goes through, it will hurt rdruids for peel and damage mitigation 10x more than for long offensive cc chains.

[phunk]

how to fix feral:

*Give the instant cast prock a cd of 25? sec, not the Cyclone spell itself.

*Make it possible to root them again OR nerf their dmg CD and then compensate with a  buff to their consistent dmg to not effect PvE.

Edited by phunk, 01 January 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[thrudgel]

Zerud, on 28 December 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Definitely trying in out in 5.2

100k heal on a 30 sec cd sounds pretty legit

don't think we need more heals, either everyone is 100% not taking damage with lifeblooms up, or someones at 10% after cc's with only ns-ht to pick them up... Will it heal more than rejuv+swiftmend in 1gcd ? if not can't use.

"Cenarion Ward can be used while silenced AND locked out" Sounds like i'm wrong BUT there will no longer be blanket silence from cs/spell lock so having a heal that can be used while silenced has less appeal. Maybe switch to it vs hunters/spriest teams.

Its really turning out to be neccessary to swap glyphs&talent for every match. Next patch even more so, obviously
blades edge/sewers = 30sec typhoon abuse
anyothermap = 30sec instant mass entanglement abuse

likewise respec cenarionward/nature's swiftness depending on opponents comp

Edited by thrudgel, 01 January 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[Bigmoran]

thrudgel, on 01 January 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

anyothermap = 30sec instant mass entanglement abuse

Unless I am missing something, I don't think Mass Entanglement should ever be the talent of choice in that tier.

[Jacquelol]

phunk, on 01 January 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

how to fix feral:

*Give the instant cast prock a cd of 25? sec, not the Cyclone spell itself.

*Make it possible to root them again OR nerf their dmg CD and then compensate with a  buff to their consistent dmg to not effect PvE.

what I dont even.