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#1 wuzzle

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 09:52 AM

So what are your thoughts?

I think rogues will become beasts if the patch goes live. Ambush, Cheap Shot and Garrote with a built in shadow step. Along with the other buffs.

The Bloodfear nerf is a bit over the top. Though we now see how the use of that instantfear was intended :P

Monk buffs are also quite from another world. Will push their representation quite a bit.

#2 Twocat

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:39 AM

people are gonna QQ(because they never stop) but I think they're amazing changes, it feels like they actually hired PvP players to help them balance the classes.

blankets on all interrupts needed to be removed a long time ago also, this is one of my most hated things since -silence duration was removed in 3.0 or whatever it was

next season looks awesome

e:
the lack of paladin changes is slightly disappointing, ret is in a really bad state

anytime people don't get their class directly overbuffed they're going to cry that a patch is shit
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#3 Reirei

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM

rogue changes : my jaw -> floor

tl;dr: the jokes are, blizz again doesn't fix what needs to be fixed, while i see some of the things going to be quite strong, rogues will be still cannon fodder due to 0 survival :x

Preparation is now a baseline ability learned at level 68.
- was about time tbh, all our CDs were based on having prep, making it unreachable was bad choice from begin with. While i see how it gonna help our survival, the fact stays that somehow since MoP hit evasion does virtually  nothing vs other melee but rogues. They really need to look into dodge numbers, because it seems like 20% parry from plate is by far superior to 50% (evas) + 20% baseline dodge from rogues. Having 2 evasions not gonna fix the survival issue vs any melee comp, but 2 cloaks every 5 min gonna be strong vs wizard teams. Knowing blizz, they will probably increase CD on some of our spells again based on the change (or/and remove cloak from prep) so i wouldn't be hyping out here yet especially since GC stated apprently they overbuffed rogues on ptr.

Versatility has been removed.
New Level 90 Talent: Marked for Death - Marks a target and instantly generates 5 combo points. When that target dies, Marked for Death's cooldown is reset. This talent has a 1 minute cooldown.
- sounds interesting but i would still take ST for pvp over it tbh.

New Level 60 Talent: Cloak and Dagger
Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot now have a 30 yard range, and will cause the Rogue to teleport behind the target.

- sounds bit OP but on the other hand you can only use it either while stealthed or during dance, meaning outside of that you still have to waddle. I don't see myself taking that talent over shs or bos even.

Burst of Speed now costs 30 Energy (was 50 Energy), can be used in Stealth, and always grants increased movement speed in addition to breaking snare effects, but no longer breaks root effects.
- 30 energy is nice but not being to break roots really sucks. I would rather still have 50 energy cost but being able to break roots. Now we are back to relying on healer to dispells (lol still 8 sec CD) every single root in game. IThis change makes shs like only choice tbh.

Shuriken Toss now causes the Rogue to Throw shuriken instead of autoattacking for 10 seconds after Shuriken Toss is used. - jk, you need to stand still to use throw, who the fuck would do it?

Deadly Throw can now interrupt spellcasting when used at 3, 4, and 5 combo points, and upon interrupt prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 4, 5 and 6 seconds respectively (was 5 combo points and 6 seconds).
- sounds sweet if you take ST as well, nerve strike might be still better choice tho

Nerve Strike now reduces the effectiveness of healing provided by the target by 25%.
- my guess they changed it because getting that debuff on healer didn't really have any impact, idk where all the hype about stacking it comes from, nerve strike debuff never stacked from begin with.

Shadow Focus now reduces ability energy costs by 75% while stealthed (was 100%).
- my guess so people can't spam bos in stealth

PvP set bonuses have been changed:
Vigor is now the 4 piece set bonus and increases maximum energy by 50 (was 10).
Deadly Brew is now the 2 piece set bonus, and its effects remain unchangen
- i don't understand why they refuse just to give us old cripp back, the deadly brew pc bonus is still a fking joke if i can't trigger 70% even with shiving. As for new 4pc, more energy is always welcome. It is quite a dmg buff though, i doubt it will make live tbh as our dmg is already bordeline to OP.

Combat
Vitality now increases attack power by 30% (was 25%).
Blade Flurry now deals 75% less damage.
- lol combat nerf, i guess back to foking for all those who were playing combat

Subtlety
Sanguinary Vein now increases the damage the target takes by 20% (was 16%).

- i srsly feel like being trolled here, 20 % -> 16% -> 20%....FFFFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS BLIZZZZZZ, just put hemo on sang and stop this troll already

somehow i doubt we will have easier times to get on arena/rbg team with those changes since the core issues weren't fixed at all, but notes are not finally so who knows

i don't understand why they buff warrior dmg, it is already too high

it seems like they are trying to do something about CCs in this game which is really needed, cheers for that

PvP trinkets that clear loss of control effects will now also clear these effects from the player's pet as well.
- ew, so much for CCing hunter's/lock's

something tells me we will see more monks

this is my 2cts so far
shut up pvp guy

#4 Ngzlife

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:34 AM

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

rogue changes : my jaw -> floor

tl;dr: the jokes are, blizz again doesn't fix what needs to be fixed, while i see some of the things going to be quite strong, rogues will be still cannon fodder due to 0 survival :x


Do you realize that rogues will prolly be insane if not over the top of the tops next patch? Just the preparation buff would make rogues alot more viable as it is right now, the rest of the changes is just the top of the mountain :)

#5 Reirei

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:41 AM

that's the joke, they buff wrong things (which eventually will be nerfed again, lol @ dmg buffs) and don't buff what needs to be buffed

what is the point of all those buffs listed if we still die in shockwave and healer can't keep us alive?

i don't want buffs that make certain aspect of the classes stupidly OP (but core issues still not fixed) just to get nerfed to the ground later and tbh i doubt most of this changes will even make live

no long time rogue asked for legendaries/vial...we paid way to much for those in MoP, i don't want this again

i personally would just trade all of this changes for old prep baseline and evasion actually doing something, but that's me


i know ppl still have s11 flashbacks, but the truth is most of you wouldn't do any arena/RBGs with rogues right now yet you are all eager to cry how OP rogues are/will be
shut up pvp guy

#6 Twocat

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:21 PM

rogues die just as fast as any non-warrior melee lol

I had 9400~ resil on my shaman before I quit and I still regularly died in shockwaves, survivability of melee outside of warriors(passive -25% dmg,second wind,mobility,etc) is complete dogshit, ret/rogue/shaman/WW monk/DK all just fall over.

the main difference is that rogues were almost unkillable last expansion
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#7 Jacquelol

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:22 PM

these changes makes me fear the future for restodruids
Jacquel "The Druid" is currently not playing wow.

Shout out too Lunor for being the most amazing friend one can have.

Shout out too Hyuru the most amazing, friendly and nice person ive met on AJ
Shout out too Ardnut the second most amazing and friendly person ive met on AJ
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#8 Twocat

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

hardest part of 5.2 is gonna be deciding what class I want to level :mad:
gotta save up for them new heirlooms
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#9 Callyo

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

blanket is gone atleast, no blanket dk when trying to sac pet

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#10

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 02:29 PM

Resto Druids are gonna be pretty dead if the cyclone DR change goes live for them.
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#11 Reirei

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

View PostTwocat, on 22 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

rogues die just as fast as any non-warrior melee lol

I had 9400~ resil on my shaman before I quit and I still regularly died in shockwaves, survivability of melee outside of warriors(passive -25% dmg,second wind,mobility,etc) is complete dogshit, ret/rogue/shaman/WW monk/DK all just fall over.

the main difference is that rogues were almost unkillable last expansion

except rogues can't do anything when CCd, DK can use ibf when stunned, ams is on short CD, monk has by far better self heals than rogues, ret can bubble while CCd etc.

my only real self heal is....lol bandage that i can't even use because of retarded amount of dots in this game

new taste of blood mechanic vs evasion - you see issue here? no?

Taste for Blood has been redesigned. It now causes the Warrior to gain 2 stacks of Overpower (maximum of 5 stacks) when Mortal Strike deals damage or the target dodges, and no longer interacts with Heroic Strike. It now requires level 20 (was level 50). <<<evasion just got even more useless

if all other melee sucks so bad, why is it so much easier to find arena team as enhance, ret or dk than as rogue right now? my rogue is geared, i have been at decent ratings yet i can't find any half decent team for the whole season, the best answer i got was "would rather have warrior or feral" /tableflip

about resto, they should have made hardcast clone have either short or no CD, we will end up having only shamanas and hpals on arena at this rate
shut up pvp guy

#12 Twocat

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

if all other melee sucks so bad, why is it so much easier to find arena team as enhance,
purge spam
if purge was removed enhance would be worse/equal to rogues

the entire spec is viable because of one ability(not to mention 30s tremors for a hpal/rdruid is pretty insane with the amount of fears in arena atm)

also I'd argue that a good RPD/RPS is better than anything DK or ret can run

ret/dk/enhance are also better "support" melee than rogues, and compliment the god melee(warrior/feral) much better, which makes finding a team easier than convincing a sp + rsham/rdruid that they should play with you instead of almost anything else
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#13 terribleperson

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

except rogues can't do anything when CCd, DK can use ibf when stunned, ams is on short CD, monk has by far better self heals than rogues, ret can bubble while CCd etc.

my only real self heal is....lol bandage that i can't even use because of retarded amount of dots in this game

new taste of blood mechanic vs evasion - you see issue here? no?

Taste for Blood has been redesigned. It now causes the Warrior to gain 2 stacks of Overpower (maximum of 5 stacks) when Mortal Strike deals damage or the target dodges, and no longer interacts with Heroic Strike. It now requires level 20 (was level 50). <<<evasion just got even more useless

if all other melee sucks so bad, why is it so much easier to find arena team as enhance, ret or dk than as rogue right now? my rogue is geared, i have been at decent ratings yet i can't find any half decent team for the whole season, the best answer i got was "would rather have warrior or feral" /tableflip

about resto, they should have made hardcast clone have either short or no CD, we will end up having only shamanas and hpals on arena at this rate


All you ever do is cry about rogues.

Pretty much every melee outside of ferals and warriors are having a hard time finding partners for arena.

-Dk's flop over after ams.
-Ret flops over after bubble.
-99.9999999999 percent of the time, you're not going to bubble out of a CC as ret, because 99.99999999 percent of the time you're being trained.

I agree, rogues have not been in their best state this expac, but dude, stop fucking complaining. Please. every thread you're in you are whining about how bad your class sucks compared to everyone else. You need to recognize that the game has not been in a great state for quite some time now, and lot's of people are going through tough times. Plenty of classes have it rough; i played both affli warlock and ret, and cantell you that rogues are not the only ones going through the shit storm.

If your class is as unplayable as you claim, quit the game. It's that simple.

#14 Amiza

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:30 PM

Really like the approach blizzard is taking this season, the balance is not perfect but atleast they are trying.

Was hoping for some Affliction buffs but oh well cant complain too much, bring on 5.2.

#15 Twocat

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

View PostAmiza, on 22 December 2012 - 11:30 PM, said:

Really like the approach blizzard is taking this season, the balance is not perfect but atleast they are trying.

Was hoping for some Affliction buffs but oh well cant complain too much, bring on 5.2.
"this season"? 5.2 will be a new arena season I believe, this season is ruined.
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#16 Amiza

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

View PostTwocat, on 22 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

"this season"? 5.2 will be a new arena season I believe, this season is ruined.

Still even this season been better than all other opening season for an expansion in my opinion

#17 Reirei

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:34 AM

View Postterribleperson, on 22 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

All you ever do is cry about rogues.

Pretty much every melee outside of ferals and warriors are having a hard time finding partners for arena.

-Dk's flop over after ams.
-Ret flops over after bubble.
-99.9999999999 percent of the time, you're not going to bubble out of a CC as ret, because 99.99999999 percent of the time you're being trained.

I agree, rogues have not been in their best state this expac, but dude, stop fucking complaining. Please. every thread you're in you are whining about how bad your class sucks compared to everyone else. You need to recognize that the game has not been in a great state for quite some time now, and lot's of people are going through tough times. Plenty of classes have it rough; i played both affli warlock and ret, and cantell you that rogues are not the only ones going through the shit storm.

If your class is as unplayable as you claim, quit the game. It's that simple.

and all what other people do is bitching about s11 rogues and how OP they will be in 5.2
if you don't like what i say, then don't read it

when did i claim for the fact that my class is unplayable? my major complain was for the whole season now that none of you is willing to play with us

you can go play hpal, you can go play demo or destro which are really wanted, not my fault you are gimping yourself...i do not have an option to change spec on this toon so ppl would be willing to run arena/RBGs with me

lastly, rogue isn't only class i pvp on
shut up pvp guy

#18 gangstalicious

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:51 AM

deep freeze change is retarded if people take too much dmg in deep freeze tone down the dmg dont break the spell
blood fear the spell was OP but it should have been  removed and replaced with someone worth the option
cyclone DR'n with everything will kill druids viability
rogues buffs are stupid and have not addressed ANY main issue and just gave them random flashy new things
how is symbiosis still allowed in arena?

there is more but you get the point. Only people who say WoW is going in a good direction atm are the people too fucking addicted to the game to quit.

#19 methodman2

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:27 AM

View Postwuzzle, on 22 December 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

So what are your thoughts?

I think rogues will become beasts if the patch goes live. Ambush, Cheap Shot and Garrote with a built in shadow step. Along with the other buffs.

The Bloodfear nerf is a bit over the top. Though we now see how the use of that instantfear was intended :P

Monk buffs are also quite from another world. Will push their representation quite a bit.

you pick between shs and cloak and dagger

not both.

which means a) you take cnd and it provides an opener on a switch and then you're kited when you get put into any CC

or B) just have shs like we've had since wrath?

nothing OP about it at all, it fucking brings the class back up to a standard so that we have more representation in arena than ret paladins.

#20 wuzzle

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 09:04 AM

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

rogue changes : my jaw -> floor

tl;dr: the jokes are, blizz again doesn't fix what needs to be fixed, while i see some of the things going to be quite strong, rogues will be still cannon fodder due to 0 survival :x

[...]
There are slight survivability buffs in that package. Baseline prep for example. You won't be super tanky with that but you don't have to. You just need to be durable enough to play out your tools and damage. I know how it feels to be squishy though. It's not fun in any way.

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

somehow i doubt we will have easier times to get on arena/rbg team with those changes since the core issues weren't fixed at all, but notes are not finally so who knows
We'll see about that. But if I where you I'd try to be optimistic. :)

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

i don't understand why they buff warrior dmg, it is already too high
I'm also quite baffled about that. But lets see how that shockwave nerf pans out.

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

it seems like they are trying to do something about CCs in this game which is really needed, cheers for that
Yeah, they try. But on the other hand they are buffing other instant cc like Wyvern sting, the new disarm-silence Monks get and also their paralyse effekt.
The biggest plus so far with these notes so far is that the current blood fear will be gone. I'm not sure if the new blood fear will replace the ordinary fear though. If it does the talent won't be an option.

View PostReirei, on 22 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

something tells me we will see more monks
Of that I am sure.

View Postmethodman2, on 23 December 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

you pick between shs and cloak and dagger

not both.

which means a) you take cnd and it provides an opener on a switch and then you're kited when you get put into any CC

or :duckers: just have shs like we've had since wrath?

nothing OP about it at all, it fucking brings the class back up to a standard so that we have more representation in arena than ret paladins.
At first glance I did not get that it's a Talent that they're buffing. Never the less rogues get a lot of love. And in skilled hands they'll be quite strong. I never said that they'll be OP or anything. I'll only state that something is OP if I've seen it with my own eyes, or tried it.
For example Hunterleveling is a Joke. It's so hilariously op that you just jump around and oneshot mobs left and right. But since that's nothing that has any impact on PvP I won't mourn about it ;)

If rogues will be op or even too strong will have to be tested. They definately deserved some love.

Edit: oh, on a sidenote...

View PostReirei, on 23 December 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

you can go play hpal, you can go play demo or destro which are really wanted, not my fault you are gimping yourself...i do not have an option to change spec on this toon so ppl would be willing to run arena/RBGs with me
You can't simply respecc midseason. It's true that as a hybrid you can try to switch speccs but since the gearing process is so slow you won't even have a complete gearset before the end of the season. And gear vastly matters.




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