44 replies to this topic

[Braindance]

Thaya, on 27 December 2012 - 04:58 AM, said:

Epic gems became common in PvP only after they became available for badges. It definitely wasn't some sort of an advantage available to PvE players like you're trying to make it sound - I honestly can't imagine myself asking for 10+ spinels 'for PvP' and I really doubt it was much different in other guilds, so as a PvE player I didn't have that advantage at all. I guess they were available for filthy rich people or the select few douchebags who stole them from their own guild to use for PvP, but that's different.

Head/shoulder enchants always came from reputations, and it wasn't much harder to farm rep in TBC than it was in WotLK or Cata - I don't know where did you get that impression from. I've played a total of 4 characters in TBC and if that grind was annoying or long, I would remember it being so. Reputation came from just doing instances, you simply didn't have tabards that allowed you to do the instances that you wanted to do - you had to specific ones for specific rep. That's all the difference.

"Heroic PvE content" didn't even exist in TBC... you bash WotLK and Cata and then end your post with that.

You had to do all cenarion instances in heroic for 15 days straight to get revered and buy the ap hit enchant - and you could actually wipe several times making it more difficult. And yes, I bash WotLK and Cata because the introduced many things they really shouldn't - BC had no need for heroic content, because the raid difficulty was well-tuned and harder. It took people 1.5 month to kill nightbane or gruul (who was severely nerfed to allow players to kill him) - not 2 days (ToC, Icecrown normal)

[Thaya]

Braindance, on 27 December 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

You had to do all cenarion instances in heroic for 15 days straight to get revered and buy the ap hit enchant - and you could actually wipe several times making it more difficult. And yes, I bash WotLK and Cata because the introduced many things they really shouldn't - BC had no need for heroic content, because the raid difficulty was well-tuned and harder. It took people 1.5 month to kill nightbane or gruul (who was severely nerfed to allow players to kill him) - not 2 days (ToC, Icecrown normal)

No, not at all. You would end up nearly revered just by leveling through Zangarmarsh, and if you got saved to all heroics already you would just spam normal Steamvaults or buy Armaments.

It took that long to kill bosses because players and (especially) guilds were much worse back then than they are now, as well as they invested much less time into it - nobody did early starts nor the 24/7 raiding in hardcore guilds you see today all the way until SWP. Also, there's nothing good about content taking long just because it's bugged or severely overtuned, and that's what Gruul and Nightbane were.

I don't know why do you mention Icecrown normal going down within 2 days for hardcore guilds, it wasn't even tuned for them. ToC was just a bad tier overall, I think just about everybody would agree with that (although if memory serves me right, it took much longer than 2 days for heroic Anub to go down).

BC's lack of heroic content actually resulted in BT being cleared within what, 1 reset? or was it 2? And then SWP, which less than 1% of all people got to experience. This is because they had to choose to balance it either around the hardcore super guilds - which, mind you, just appeared at the time - or around the general mass of players. It was either the super guilds plowing through it, or the average guilds never seeing it.

Honestly, I would love to know what would happen if modes were never introduced at all and they just kept making content hard like SWP. It's very well possible that this "potential" journey would keep people playing just as much, and would keep hardcore raiding as prestigious as it was in SWP at the same time. But I completely acknowledge why they introduced modes, and the phrase "BC had no need for heroic content" just looks funny to me because if anything, BC raids illustrate perfectly well why heroics were needed.

I love TBC just as much as you do, it was the funnest expansion for me by a long shot. But you're making it sound like it was ultra hardcore and even the simplest things took tons of time and effort - they did not. SWP is the only thing that was truely hardcore in TBC, comparable to todays raiding / time investments, and that's why all the future raids comparable to SWP in difficulty needed a mode of their own.

Edited by Thaya, 27 December 2012 - 06:18 AM.

[Braindance]

Thaya, on 27 December 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

Dunno, you make it sound soooo easy. Perhaps it was because I was a really hardcore guild with a tyrant GM, that's why I still think it was hard. Fight's like kael, vashj, leotheras took way more than 1-2 resets for top guilds to clear. SWP didn't seem all that hard compared to kael  (at least to me). But anyway, it's all in the past, the point is to make the game better now,and I really think it's going in the right direction.

[Speedymart]

Why are we have these long thought out posts on the difficulties of dragon slaying

[trolololz]

a a