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Rogue changes 5.2

Rogue Patch

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#141 Kifasa

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:21 AM

View PostEnaina, on 10 January 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

This change was never done. lol
Yeah, I know. Wasn't clear maybe. I wanted to say that it's gonna be the same despite initial patch notes.
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#142 inhume

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

marked for death is a lot more OP than people are giving it credit, due to the fact it syncs up so easily with shadow dance.  i do agree that cloak needs to be removed from preparation if it's to be made baseline because it'll be too easy to use it offensively.

#143 Dragomir

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:54 AM

View PostKifasa, on 10 January 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Nerf was removed from Second Wind (back to 3%) and from Deep Freeze (doesn't break)... :(

But... Cloak and Dagger is finally on PTR and it's amazing!

Where is cloak and dagger showing up on the PTR (is it a talent? what tier?)?  I haven't been on the PTR, but I figured it would've been where hit and run was, until they decided to put hit and run on the PTR first.

Edited by Dragomir, 11 January 2013 - 04:55 AM.


#144 Kifasa

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:06 AM

View PostDragomir, on 11 January 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

Where is cloak and dagger showing up on the PTR (is it a talent? what tier?)?  I haven't been on the PTR, but I figured it would've been where hit and run was, until they decided to put hit and run on the PTR first.
Yeah, it's replacing Hit and Run in 60 lvl talent bracket. So basically You need to choose between between Cloak and Dagger, Shadowstep and Burst of Speed.
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#145 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:57 AM

Talked to Vishas and Khuna about the talent and they currently prefer Shuriken Toss or Anticipation over Marked for Death. But I think Marked for Death can be interesting.

A simple Subterfuge restealth can be made stronger and less predictable, as it increases the end of the burst and usually trinkets/defensive cooldowns are used earlier in the burst. If one Ambush crits adding a second Eviscerate can be enough. I think it will not be the go-to talent but can be a nice surprise.

Currently the strength of our burst is very RNG-based (low crit rate, high base damage for Ambush & Eviscerate) and Marked for Death allows to abuse the RNG and increase it once it happens.

Did anyone check what happens if Cloak & Dagger Ambush is used from the front while being rooted? Does the skill not fire or is the teleport not activated but Ambush fires?

#146 Kifasa

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 11 January 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Did anyone check what happens if Cloak & Dagger Ambush is used from the front while being rooted? Does the skill not fire or is the teleport not activated but Ambush fires?
WOW! Cloak and Dagger teleports You behind despite of roots (but roots remains on You)!
Btw. BoS is not working as intended... Still breaks stealth.

Edited by Kifasa, 11 January 2013 - 09:54 AM.

Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#147 samcope14

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:44 AM

So these patch notes are going through? ...

yessss goodbye warriorzzzzzzzz
#1

#148 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

View PostKifasa, on 11 January 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

WOW! Cloak and Dagger teleports You behind despite of roots (but roots remains on You)!
Btw. BoS is not working as intended... Still breaks stealth.

Ouch. Goodbye ShS, hello Cloak and Dagger.

#149 Kifasa

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 11 January 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Ouch. Goodbye ShS, hello Cloak and Dagger.
BTW. Gilde... There is another glitch. Monk during arena becomes a friendly target for us (me and ret)... We can't kill him but his pet is killing us...
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#150 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

Ok, but that should get fixed at some point.

With Cloak and Dagger I am unsure about Shuriken Toss. Restealths won't be easy to pull off, but incredibly effective. SnD, Restealth, Focus-Sap/Cheap Shot, Target Garrote, Ambushx 2 Kidney, Eviscerate and Ambush/Evi with the rest of the energy. Anticipation will be harder to build up outside of burst without step. And the 25 energy from the MoD finisher helps as well.

Need to run some calculations during the weekend if it actually works out with the energy.

Also considering to create Arena1/2/3 macros for Cheap Shot and Garrote.

#151 mimmick

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostWildeHilde, on 11 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Ok, but that should get fixed at some point.

With Cloak and Dagger I am unsure about Shuriken Toss. Restealths won't be easy to pull off, but incredibly effective. SnD, Restealth, Focus-Sap/Cheap Shot, Target Garrote, Ambushx 2 Kidney, Eviscerate and Ambush/Evi with the rest of the energy. Anticipation will be harder to build up outside of burst without step. And the 25 energy from the MoD finisher helps as well.

Need to run some calculations during the weekend if it actually works out with the energy.

Also considering to create Arena1/2/3 macros for Cheap Shot and Garrote.
Or just arena focus 123 and make focus cheap garrote incase you dont have room for another 50 binds

#152 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:28 AM

That's what I currently have. But for ranged skills I always preferred A1/2/3 macros.

As we are on topic: Do you also use macros that use dance + skill directly? Makes my binds more complex, but I like the speed it gives. Currently I have macros that use Dance in addition to openers with a modifier.

Means:
1 is Hemorrhage in stance:0 and Garrote in stance:1/3
ctrl 1 is Dance in stance:0/1 and Garrote in stance:1/3
shift 1 is Dance in stance:0 and Focus Garrote in stance:1/3

Have similar macros for Cheap Shot, Sap and Ambush.

#153 AcerMVP

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

YAY, More keybinds... Either way, I haven't played the PTR, but we'll see how this goes. I'm sure half of this shit won't go through and if it does, prepare for comebacks by all the bad rogues.

#154 WildeHilde

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 01:48 PM

The point about rogues being overpowered is that at least some things need to be done correctly. Warrior one-shot was basically. Charge, Macro, Shockwave, cya. Rogue burst means Premed -> SnD, Opener, Rupture, Dance, Ambushx2, Kidney Shot... You can use Ambush to often and miss the follow-up control due to being energy starved or not having enough CP, you can overlap stuns and silence, you can forget about Premed SnD etc.

How many bad rogues can actually pull the chain with Tricks, Premed, SnD, Sap, Opener, Rupture, Ambush into the next control off without screwing it up regulary, not getting popped out of stealth and their partners in good position during the opener? Not hard in any way, but it requires attention to do it correctly.

Means the burst difference between bad rogues and good rogues will still be huge and probably have a bigger span than most DPS classes in the arena and not some 1400 players one-shotting glads.

Not saying the changes are ok, but we won't see rogues turning into 5.0 hunters.

By the way - the word "bad" in regards to WoW is pretty much without any meaning. Most of the very succesful players are constantly called bad. So what is a bad rogue? One that can't land an opener or can't reach 2500 in patch 5.1 or didn't get glad in S11? Or one that clicks or keyboard turns?

#155 AcerMVP

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:05 PM

All the above.

#156 inhume

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:34 PM

shuriken toss will be better for sustained pressure comps like RLS or something similar.

but seriously you guys really need to try out marked for death. premed-garrote-hemo-evis-marked for death-evis is probably one of the most brutal opening on a healer i've seen.

#157 mimmick

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

I havent got to test cloak and dagger in arena yet, but from the looks of the ptr when this patch hits live i might actually log on wow instead of black ops.

#158 Nadagast

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

View Postmimmick, on 12 January 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:

I havent got to test cloak and dagger in arena yet, but from the looks of the ptr when this patch hits live i might actually log on wow instead of black ops.

That's funny, if the PTR patch hits live as is, I probably won't be logging on my Warlock much anymore.  :)

Affliction already gets absolutely fucking tooled by Rogues as is, with these buffs it will be a joke.  :(

#159 mimmick

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

View PostNadagast, on 12 January 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

That's funny, if the PTR patch hits live as is, I probably won't be logging on my Warlock much anymore.  :)

Affliction already gets absolutely fucking tooled by Rogues as is, with these buffs it will be a joke.  :(
It is funny you will know how i felt when a warrior charged shockwaved me for 100k than 2 chaoswaves crit me for 140k each and i died, was real sick and took a shit load of skill. Oh wait no it didnt...

#160 Justwoo

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:47 AM

chaos wave hit way harder than 140k
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