205 replies to this topic

[Bigmoran]

Dance openers are pretty brutal. 2 eviscerates

[Kifasa]

Nothing better than Deadly Throw a mage on cast just to Shuriken Toss to 5 combo points and repeat it the moment he can cast again.
<3

[Nadagast]

Man, I really hope that almost all of the 5.2 Rogue changes get rolled back.  I know it's kinda shitty for me to come here and say that, but it just feels like the buffs are almost entirely in the exact wrong places.

[mimmick]

Nadagast, on 09 January 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

Man, I really hope that almost all of the 5.2 Rogue changes get rolled back.  I know it's kinda shitty for me to come here and say that, but it just feels like the buffs are almost entirely in the exact wrong places.

changes are fine, if your losing to a rogue its a l2p issue. I mean everytime i die to a 100k shockwave i know i could of done something better to avoid getting stunned for half my health. Oh wait

[originn]

Nadagast, on 09 January 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

Man, I really hope that almost all of the 5.2 Rogue changes get rolled back.  I know it's kinda shitty for me to come here and say that, but it just feels like the buffs are almost entirely in the exact wrong places.

this

[Nadagast]

mimmick, on 09 January 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

changes are fine, if your losing to a rogue its a l2p issue. I mean everytime i die to a 100k shockwave i know i could of done something better to avoid getting stunned for half my health. Oh wait

Why do you even post shit like this?  How is dying in a Shockwave relevant?  Or you're just trolling?

Edited by Nadagast, 09 January 2013 - 02:46 AM.

[mimmick]

Nadagast, on 09 January 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

Why do you even post shit like this?  How is dying in a Shockwave relevant?  Or you're just trolling?

I do agree changes are not in the correct area but patch isnt even live yet. Rogues still can die, actually play it for more than 2 days before complaining about rogues.

[Nadagast]

mimmick, on 09 January 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

I do agree changes are not in the correct area but patch isnt even live yet. Rogues still can die, actually play it for more than 2 days before complaining about rogues.

I know Rogues can die... that's why I said the buffs are almost entirely in the wrong place.  They're mostly offensive buffs, when Rogue offense is fine (if badly designed, IMO).  Rogues need something to live stuns, and that's about it.

[mimmick]

Nadagast, on 09 January 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

I know Rogues can die... that's why I said the buffs are almost entirely in the wrong place.  They're mostly offensive buffs, when Rogue offense is fine (if badly designed, IMO).  Rogues need something to live stuns, and that's about it.

Yep pretty much, you can prevent rogues damage very easily and the changes arent THAT drastic. More energy you get prep 4% more damage and than nerve strike with the lose of combat readiness. Not like my kidney shot hits you for 50k and cloak reflects spells.

[Nadagast]

mimmick, on 09 January 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Yep pretty much, you can prevent rogues damage very easily and the changes arent THAT drastic. More energy you get prep 4% more damage and than nerve strike with the lose of combat readiness.

You can prevent some, but it can be pretty difficult to prevent a Rogue's burst damage.  I think if you think the changes aren't that drastic, you're insane.  Most high rated players I've talked to are extremely worried that the changes go live as is.  Rogue burst damage is already bordering on too high, and this is just making it much worse.

Quote

Not like my kidney shot hits you for 50k and cloak reflects spells.

Pointless analogies.... yay.

[Kifasa]

Nadagast, on 09 January 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

I know Rogues can die... that's why I said the buffs are almost entirely in the wrong place.  They're mostly offensive buffs, when Rogue offense is fine (if badly designed, IMO).  Rogues need something to live stuns, and that's about it.

Well... I think that's the strategy of Blizzard in balancing classes. They don't want every part (mobility, burst, survivability, dmg output, utility) of the class to be fine. They want classes to have their strenghts and weaknesses. That's how Rogues look like right now. On 1-10 scale they are like 7, 8, 4, 5, 9 respectively. At least that is my opinion on that.

[mimmick]

Kifasa, on 09 January 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Well... I think that's the strategy of Blizzard in balancing classes. They don't want every part (mobility, burst, survivability, dmg output, utility) of the class to be fine. They want classes to have their strenghts and weaknesses. That's how Rogues look like right now. On 1-10 scale they are like 7, 8, 4, 5, 9 respectively. At least that is my opinion on that.

exactly if you want them to buff survivability thats fine im happy with never dying like s11 again.

[gangstalicious]

rogues are so weak they die in one kidney shot

[mimmick]

Nadagast, on 09 January 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

You can prevent some, but it can be pretty difficult to prevent a Rogue's burst damage.  I think if you think the changes aren't that drastic, you're insane.  Most high rated players I've talked to are extremely worried that the changes go live as is.  Rogue burst damage is already bordering on too high, and this is just making it much worse.


Pointless analogies.... yay.

   If you played a rogue this season you wouldn't be so ignorant.

[Malladon]

Nadagast is pretty much on point though. However I disagree, I don't think our defense should be buffed (much). Double cloak is going to be stupid hands down, there's no debating that. Maybe half of the existing vigor buff would be justifiable.

The other talent changes I haven't had an opportunity to test really on PTR. Some look like they're gonna be a lot of fun (hit and run) others look like they could be ridiculous (shuriken toss & possibly marked for death, deadly throw because of shuriken toss will be silly).

I think with the shockwave nerf, blood fear's redesign, and maybe some tweaking and reworking of hunters so that BM doesn't get the full suite of control and damage put rogue's in an amazing spot without ANY changes to rogue mechanics. I haven't had this much fun with rogues since wrath of the lich king tbh, it's actually fun and challenging to land a kill. If we go back to S11 status (which is almost inevitable with these changes), I'll probably stop playing serious 3s again and just play for fun/messing around doing whatever.


edit: if anything maybe put nerve strike in as a talent on the cheat death/feint tier, -X% damage taken while stunned. 40% would probably do it without being too ridiculous, filler number, don't string me up for that

Edited by Malladon, 10 January 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[Kifasa]

Malladon, on 10 January 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

If we go back to S11 status (which is almost inevitable with these changes), I'll probably stop playing serious 3s again and just play for fun/messing around doing whatever.

Don't worry, on higher ratings You still need to be carefull as hell and know how to play defensively to survive. Not even close to our survivability in Cata.

[Malladon]

Double cloak makes me think otherwise. Playing against cleave 2x CloS Glyph, Cheat Death, CR, 2 Evasions, 2 Vanishes and shadowstep is pretty uhm, well it's enough. Just because we'll have to hit more than just recuperate doesn't mean we won't be really really dumb.

I think glass cannon is a good thing, right about to the point where rogues are right now.

And oh, they shoudl change subterfuge so that when you open you can still use stealth moves but that you can be SEEN. Unpeelable openers/cheap shot spam is stupid in principle, and this will become a lot more obvious when rogues populate the ladders a bit more.

[sapnoob]

should make backstab 60% more damage and 100% crit as well as ambush and make cloak min cd and vanish 1.5min cd with prep on 3 min cd and also smoke bomb 1 mins cd and maybe make prep give a second bomb and second kick and second distract and also make combat readiness baseline and make a new talent instead that will make recup heal 2% more and reduce damage taken by 10% while active and they should make an ability that will combine recup and snd so you save combo points and ALSO they should just remove every other class, think about it game would be so balanced because every class is the same think about it 3v3 rogues, noob calls blizzard and what they gonna say? nerf rogues this other rogue hit me for 150k? this here my friends is... THE SOLUTION!

[Kifasa]

Nerf was removed from Second Wind (back to 3%) and from Deep Freeze (doesn't break)...

But... Cloak and Dagger is finally on PTR and it's amazing!

[Enaina]

Kifasa, on 10 January 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

... and from Deep Freeze (doesn't break)...

This change was never done. lol