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#101 dj_abdullah

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:52 PM

View PostOldog, on 30 December 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Actually this is untrue: aoe cc DOES simply fail to land on ANY stealthed rogue who has the talent Subterfuge.  This may be a bug or working as intended, either way its rather annoying to deal with and waste cds on.

In addition; any re-stealth from rogues, druids and even mages and hunters (if used at the correct time) DOES immune not only cc but also debuffs , damage spells and melee attacks; just like Shadowmeld or old rogue vanish from WotLK!



I do not expect you to believe me yet, but next time someone tries to Shadowfury, Shockwave, Howl, Blinding Light or Nova you while stealthed; just ask yourself: did he really miss me completely?  Is it really DRed to immunity?  

Probably not.

Really doubt this, can't count how many times I've been feared/novad/shockwaved/etc during stealth with subterfuge, and just standing there like an idiot til the stealth fades and they can see me.

#102 Theles

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

View Postidevpro, on 30 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Then don't get shockwave? Fient before? shockwave is gonna be 40 sec whats ur problem? warrior should do high dmg on melee like rogues, you want rogue to tank more than warrior?

Rogue is fine even without these buffs when other classes toned down, think the prep baseline was needed tho. Stop crying to everything even when they address ur class already

rogues die with feint up all the time, kfc can even tunnel you down with feint and combat readiness up

#103 Artofmage

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostIsumi, on 29 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

you know, in 5.2 rogues have 150 energypool, 25% healing reduce, can't get peeled in dance when every ambush ports you behind the target, instantly have 5 combopoints on target, so it's worth to pop everything in the opener when you get a free kill
im sure all rogues will use that new talent , jk step is 10000 times better

#104 Zanders

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

View PostOldog, on 30 December 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Actually this is untrue: aoe cc DOES simply fail to land on ANY stealthed rogue who has the talent Subterfuge.  This may be a bug or working as intended, either way its rather annoying to deal with and waste cds on.

In addition; any re-stealth from rogues, druids and even mages and hunters (if used at the correct time) DOES immune not only cc but also debuffs , damage spells and melee attacks; just like Shadowmeld or old rogue vanish from WotLK!



I do not expect you to believe me yet, but next time someone tries to Shadowfury, Shockwave, Howl, Blinding Light or Nova you while stealthed; just ask yourself: did he really miss me completely?  Is it really DRed to immunity?  

Probably not.
you are actually wrong, subterfuge doesnt make you immune to shit.
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#105 Silhin

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:41 PM

View PostNightmonkey, on 30 December 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Rogues aren't the only class that dies in a shockwave.  That can happen to anyone at this point.  The answer to shockwave being overpowered is not buff rogues...or is it?  Bring back our rogue overlords from cataclysm, and put those filthy warriors in the dumpster.

Where is the sense in trading one obnoxious overpowered class for another?  Why would you want that to happen?  Is it because you play a rogue? :rolleyes:

View PostNightmonkey, on 30 December 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Rogues aren't the only class that dies in a shockwave.  That can happen to anyone at this point.  The answer to shockwave being overpowered is not buff rogues...or is it?  Bring back our rogue overlords from cataclysm, and put those filthy warriors in the dumpster.

Where is the sense in trading one obnoxious overpowered class for another?  Why would you want that to happen?  Is it because you play a rogue? :rolleyes:

Why are people so stupid and blind Cata rogue wasnt overpowerd Stupid Heroic pve trinkets and Legendary dagger was the over powerd crap Or did we alrdy forget the LFRBG BoomKIN with legendarys and Cunning Crap most people wouldnt invite you if u didnt have a cunning or legendarys The diffrence from my Legendary rogue and my 2nd rogue wasnt even close But even at the hypeof  it all rogue didnt global anyone like warriors do

INB4 Vial LOL50k crit  it was the trinket not the class

#106 Regent

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

View PostYarmyxx, on 30 December 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

im sure all rogues will use that new talent , jk step is 10000 times better

I'm not sure if the talent will work while dancing, but couldn't garroting everyone on their team with the garrote glyph during dance be extremely strong? The potential to peel/setup control with that talent is really good, I would think.

Edited by Regent, 30 December 2012 - 07:47 PM.


#107 Chazzwozzer

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

View PostSilhin, on 30 December 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Why are people so stupid and blind Cata rogue wasnt overpowerd Stupid Heroic pve trinkets and Legendary dagger was the over powerd crap Or did we alrdy forget the LFRBG BoomKIN with legendarys and Cunning Crap most people wouldnt invite you if u didnt have a cunning or legendarys The diffrence from my Legendary rogue and my 2nd rogue wasnt even close But even at the hypeof  it all rogue didnt global anyone like warriors do

INB4 Vial LOL50k crit  it was the trinket not the class

Based on your post, it would seem that the only thing that contributes to classes being overpowered is damage.  And yes trinkets and legendary weapons provided damage to rogues that made them overpowered.  However, this is an oversimplification - it wasn't just rogue damage that was out of control.  It was a combination of damage, survivability (this especially), and control.

You're significantly downplaying how resilient rogues were last season, which was a huge reason they were so overpowered. With increased healing received, a significant recup heal, reduced damage taken talent, and double vanish + cheat death, rogues were able to completely ignore their positioning in relation to their healer.  There were so many games last season where an opposing rogue would be 50+ yards away from his healer, behind a box mongo'ing a target, so we'd swap to him and he would live easily.  No other class could do this as often as rogues could.  

When I would play with rogues on my resto shaman last season, I almost never would use my healing cd's such as NS or spirit link for a rogue.  It was much better to save those cd's for myself.  However when playing my main comp (dk/warlock), I was constantly using my healing cd's on all my teammates.  A single vanish with a riptide + recupe, and a rogue would come out with nearly full health.  This survivabilty coupled with their damage is what made rogues overpowered (plus double smoke bomb, you fail to realize how good that was as well).

If all that mattered in terms of overpowered classes was damage, then DK's in their current state could be placed on the overpowered list.  Dk's currently do amazing damage in pvp, but you don't see very many people crying about them being op.  The class that most people complain about is warriors, and it should be obvious why this is the case.  They are in the same position as rogues were last season.  They have crazy damage, along with good control, but also excellent survivability with defensive stance and second wind.  The same scenario is playing out on my shaman this season when I play with a warrior.  I rarely use my healing cd's for the warrior on my team, as it's much better to save those cd's for myself or my other teammate.  

As an aside, I find it funny that you assume people are stupid or blind in calling rogues overpowered, when every rogue that I've played with admits that the class was overpowered last season.

#108 khuna

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

Rogue were perfectly balanced on TR with s9 gear and last cataclysm patch, abit over the top on live with s11 gear & imp recup, overpowered with legendary/we.

Rogues aren't good enough atm cause warriors are too overpowered and cause we can't have step + prep which is a must have for the class to work with all the new shit implemented since TBC/WOTLK.

Rogues will be good next patch, maybe too much.

Do something else until 5.2.

#109 sneakysnipe

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

View PostOldog, on 30 December 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

Actually this is untrue: aoe cc DOES simply fail to land on ANY stealthed rogue who has the talent Subterfuge.  This may be a bug or working as intended, either way its rather annoying to deal with and waste cds on.

In addition; any re-stealth from rogues, druids and even mages and hunters (if used at the correct time) DOES immune not only cc but also debuffs , damage spells and melee attacks; just like Shadowmeld or old rogue vanish from WotLK!



I do not expect you to believe me yet, but next time someone tries to Shadowfury, Shockwave, Howl, Blinding Light or Nova you while stealthed; just ask yourself: did he really miss me completely?  Is it really DRed to immunity?  

Probably not.

like i said.. you arent immune to shit while stealthed i dont remember saying you are immune to aoe cc
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#110 Bigmoran

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostSilhin, on 30 December 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Why are people so stupid and blind Cata rogue wasnt overpowerd Stupid Heroic pve trinkets and Legendary dagger was the over powerd crap Or did we alrdy forget the LFRBG BoomKIN with legendarys and Cunning Crap most people wouldnt invite you if u didnt have a cunning or legendarys The diffrence from my Legendary rogue and my 2nd rogue wasnt even close But even at the hypeof  it all rogue didnt global anyone like warriors do

INB4 Vial LOL50k crit  it was the trinket not the class

I think this was a huge misconception. Rogues were a bit over the top even without PvE gear. The best Cataclysm rogue at the time, Farmer Samulex, put out tons of pressure with just a raid finder trinket (the stacking Agility one) and full PvP gear.

It was the class AND the gear.

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View PostIcekingx, on 26 November 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Emma Watson would call Bigmoran and hang up cause she knows hes WAY to good for her.

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#111 affix

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:37 PM

View PostTheles, on 30 December 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

rogues die with feint up all the time, kfc can even tunnel you down with feint and combat readiness up
kfc can tunnel everything down

#112 Silhin

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:11 AM

View PostChazzwozzer, on 30 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Based on your post, it would seem that the only thing that contributes to classes being overpowered is damage.  And yes trinkets and legendary weapons provided damage to rogues that made them overpowered.  However, this is an oversimplification - it wasn't just rogue damage that was out of control.  It was a combination of damage, survivability (this especially), and control.

You're significantly downplaying how resilient rogues were last season, which was a huge reason they were so overpowered. With increased healing received, a significant recup heal, reduced damage taken talent, and double vanish + cheat death, rogues were able to completely ignore their positioning in relation to their healer.  There were so many games last season where an opposing rogue would be 50+ yards away from his healer, behind a box mongo'ing a target, so we'd swap to him and he would live easily.  No other class could do this as often as rogues could.  

When I would play with rogues on my resto shaman last season, I almost never would use my healing cd's such as NS or spirit link for a rogue.  It was much better to save those cd's for myself.  However when playing my main comp (dk/warlock), I was constantly using my healing cd's on all my teammates.  A single vanish with a riptide + recupe, and a rogue would come out with nearly full health.  This survivabilty coupled with their damage is what made rogues overpowered (plus double smoke bomb, you fail to realize how good that was as well).

If all that mattered in terms of overpowered classes was damage, then DK's in their current state could be placed on the overpowered list.  Dk's currently do amazing damage in pvp, but you don't see very many people crying about them being op.  The class that most people complain about is warriors, and it should be obvious why this is the case.  They are in the same position as rogues were last season.  They have crazy damage, along with good control, but also excellent survivability with defensive stance and second wind.  The same scenario is playing out on my shaman this season when I play with a warrior.  I rarely use my healing cd's for the warrior on my team, as it's much better to save those cd's for myself or my other teammate.  

As an aside, I find it funny that you assume people are stupid or blind in calling rogues overpowered, when every rogue that I've played with admits that the class was overpowered last season.

View PostChazzwozzer, on 30 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Based on your post, it would seem that the only thing that contributes to classes being overpowered is damage.  And yes trinkets and legendary weapons provided damage to rogues that made them overpowered.  However, this is an oversimplification - it wasn't just rogue damage that was out of control.  It was a combination of damage, survivability (this especially), and control.

You're significantly downplaying how resilient rogues were last season, which was a huge reason they were so overpowered. With increased healing received, a significant recup heal, reduced damage taken talent, and double vanish + cheat death, rogues were able to completely ignore their positioning in relation to their healer.  There were so many games last season where an opposing rogue would be 50+ yards away from his healer, behind a box mongo'ing a target, so we'd swap to him and he would live easily.  No other class could do this as often as rogues could.  

When I would play with rogues on my resto shaman last season, I almost never would use my healing cd's such as NS or spirit link for a rogue.  It was much better to save those cd's for myself.  However when playing my main comp (dk/warlock), I was constantly using my healing cd's on all my teammates.  A single vanish with a riptide + recupe, and a rogue would come out with nearly full health.  This survivabilty coupled with their damage is what made rogues overpowered (plus double smoke bomb, you fail to realize how good that was as well).

If all that mattered in terms of overpowered classes was damage, then DK's in their current state could be placed on the overpowered list.  Dk's currently do amazing damage in pvp, but you don't see very many people crying about them being op.  The class that most people complain about is warriors, and it should be obvious why this is the case.  They are in the same position as rogues were last season.  They have crazy damage, along with good control, but also excellent survivability with defensive stance and second wind.  The same scenario is playing out on my shaman this season when I play with a warrior.  I rarely use my healing cd's for the warrior on my team, as it's much better to save those cd's for myself or my other teammate.  

As an aside, I find it funny that you assume people are stupid or blind in calling rogues overpowered, when every rogue that I've played with admits that the class was overpowered last season.

I didnt undersell the fact rogues where tanky but i dont hear people complaining about fucking Protection warrior or prot pali of bear druid in arena No u dont cuz living for a long time doesnt matter that much you can out play thats its ez called cc shit blizzard added some extra ones for people like you .getting global in a shockwave u cant out play

as for double smoke bomb it was actually needed for rogues to get kill early in the expansion but blizzard doesnt balance the game per season rather per xpac so couple with the huge damage increase of s11+pve crap rogue did very well

Its funny cuz i wasnt only Talking about last season i was talking about the whole xpac the Moment people started complaing about rogue was the moment those trinkets/daggers came in to play

#113 Silhin

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:23 AM

View PostBigmoran, on 01 January 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

I think this was a huge misconception. Rogues were a bit over the top even without PvE gear. The best Cataclysm rogue at the time, Farmer Samulex, put out tons of pressure with just a raid finder trinket (the stacking Agility one) and full PvP gear.

It was the class AND the gear.

View PostBigmoran, on 01 January 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

I think this was a huge misconception. Rogues were a bit over the top even without PvE gear. The best Cataclysm rogue at the time, Farmer Samulex, put out tons of pressure with just a raid finder trinket (the stacking Agility one) and full PvP gear.

It was the class AND the gear.

He still used a pve item cuz it was better than a pvp one Simple enuff

So i guess what your saying rogue should be hitting for wet noodles

Cata rogue in full pvp gear cool downs up = healable
Mop warrior full pvp gear Cool downs up = Un healable
U can add Feral and mages and probly hunters

#114 Regent

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:57 AM

View PostSilhin, on 03 January 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

He still used a pve item cuz it was better than a pvp one Simple enuff

So i guess what your saying rogue should be hitting for wet noodles

Cata rogue in full pvp gear cool downs up = healable
Mop warrior full pvp gear Cool downs up = Un healable
U can add Feral and mages and probly hunters

>.>

Rogues shouldn't be unkillable, mobile, have great control, and insane damage...

#115 samcope14

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:56 AM

MoP rogue is 10x more fun then Cata Rogue. We are no longer invulnerable gods defensively and offensively.

Two words to sum up MoP rogue. Balanced and Exciting.

A small nerf to warriors would completely fix rogues and the rest of this game.

I can only hope these 5.2 buffs don't go through so that damage spamming mongoloids don't come back to PvP.
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#116 Silhin

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:10 AM

View Postsamcope14, on 03 January 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

MoP rogue is 10x more fun then Cata Rogue. We are no longer invulnerable gods defensively and offensively.

Two words to sum up MoP rogue. Balanced and Exciting.

A small nerf to warriors would completely fix rogues and the rest of this game.

I can only hope these 5.2 buffs don't go through so that damage spamming mongoloids don't come back to PvP.

View Postsamcope14, on 03 January 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

MoP rogue is 10x more fun then Cata Rogue. We are no longer invulnerable gods defensively and offensively.

Two words to sum up MoP rogue. Balanced and Exciting.

A small nerf to warriors would completely fix rogues and the rest of this game.

I can only hope these 5.2 buffs don't go through so that damage spamming mongoloids don't come back to PvP.

Lets see you keep that attitude when you try to push for glad

#117 methodman2

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

View Postsamcope14, on 03 January 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

MoP rogue is 10x more fun then Cata Rogue. We are no longer invulnerable gods defensively and offensively.

Two words to sum up MoP rogue. Balanced and Exciting.

A small nerf to warriors would completely fix rogues and the rest of this game.

I can only hope these 5.2 buffs don't go through so that damage spamming mongoloids don't come back to PvP.

exciting?

rogues are bland as fuck dont know what ur smoking

#118 WildeHilde

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

View Postmethodman2, on 03 January 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

exciting?

rogues are bland as fuck dont know what ur smoking

Only if you play Shadow Focus / Prey on the Weak / Anticipation with Subterfuge / Paralytic / Toss they are pretty fun.

#119 methodman2

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostWildeHilde, on 03 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Only if you play Shadow Focus / Prey on the Weak / Anticipation with Subterfuge / Paralytic / Toss they are pretty fun.

this makes no sense at all

#120 Oldog

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:53 PM

View PostSilhin, on 03 January 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Lets see you keep that attitude when you try to push for glad

crop




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