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#81 Mirionx

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 21 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

comparing mage spellsteal to purge and tranq shot is like comparing a bow and arrow to an assault rifle

Yet the arrow is still deadly and very good even today.

#82 ROKMODE

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

You must really hate elemental shamans
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#83 Baht

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:10 PM

i realise shaman buffs are not popular. but elemental really needs some help atm. the changes i'd like to see for 5.2 is:

-Buff lightning bolt dmg to be worth using over mindless purge spam unless your target has some important buff up like sac or something.
-remove purge glyph, but make the double dispell baseline for elemental and enhancement
-astral shift usable while stunned
-make lightning shield give 3% dmg reduction per stack as elemental. Maybe for everyone since its only elemental that stacks it so it would just be passive 3% for enhancement and resto. dunno. For elemental it would give me the needed survivability while trained since that with 7stacks+astral shift might actually save me then, but without being mindless and passive reduction. So i'd have to choose between the dmg and the added survability.

the changes mentioned by OP would be the fatal blow to ele, making it nearly unplayable. Even worse than it was in cata

#84 Reedzlol

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:20 PM

I believe some necessary hunter changes are:

- Change stampede back to the damage pre-fix
- New glyph: Glyph of Flying Man - Disengage is now on a 3 second cooldown

#85 Nightmonkey

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:23 PM

What is this garbage?  Mages don't need buffs at all.

The serious problems that I think need to be addressed first:

Remove Blood Fear
Nerf Shadow Priest utility
Buff Disc Priest in terms of mana, throughput, ability to survive
Nerf Feral.  Their utility, up time, and damage all seems super strong
Adjust Warrior talents.  Some of them are way too good, others really not good.  Avatar, Shockwave, Second Wind are all probably too good in comparison to the other choices.
Resto Shaman throughput / mastery in PvP is way too strong, other Shaman specs kind of weak

After those problems are addressed, then they can work on adjusting numbers and putting shared CD's on certain abilities.  Some classes burst way too hard with cooldowns, and then don't do anything for 2-5 minutes until the cooldowns come back up.  Seems like some healing classes really shine, and others just seem poor in comparison.

I also feel like there is too much instant CC, instant cast damage, and now it feels like every class has an interrupt too.  There's just too much garbage in the game now, but oddly enough this is probably the best first season of an expansion so far.

#86 Mirionx

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostBaht, on 21 December 2012 - 09:10 PM, said:

-remove purge glyph, but make the double dispell baseline for elemental and enhancement

No, not a chance. Purge is to strong already and should get nerfed.

#87 Baht

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

View PostMirionx, on 21 December 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

No, not a chance. Purge is to strong already and should get nerfed.
That IS a nerf to purge? removing the double purge from resto where it causes big problems. buffing lightning bolt to a lvl that makes it worth using over purge spam for elemental will remove a lot of the brainless purging there too. + it would open up a glyph slot for elemental for the lightning bolt while moving again since it'd be useful. It doesnt really change anything for enhancement. How is that a buff to purge? xD

EDIT: also purge is too strong for resto sure, but its the only thing that makes enhancement and elemental viable. so saying it needs a nerf in general is silly imo :) though i agree they need to alter the playstyle to make it less dependant on purge, hence my other changes for elemental. Dont know enough about enhancement to suggest some changes for that since i havent played it in mop.

Edited by Baht, 21 December 2012 - 09:37 PM.


#88 Tsx

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:




It's a 3min cd, reduced to 90sec by 4set bonus. Maybe mage setbonuses needs reworking.
make the 4 set bonus so that coc will root and im happy

#89 Zeiyo

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

NERF

Warriors: Shockwave needs a longer CD 30-40 seconds would be good, defensive stance should be 15% max dmg reduction

Feral: Nerf shifting roots, insta cyclone needs reworking

Spriest: Survival utility, disperse/lifeswap sharing same CD could be ok for a start

Druids: Displacer beast shouldn't be usable while silenced and CD increased maybe

BUFF

Rogue: Shadowstep bassline as sub, evasion CD reduced

Disc: Idk but needs fixing looool

Ele: Needs some sort of help with survivability be it passive like warriors have or CD based.

Affliction Warlock: Blood fear needs to be removed but warlocks should be able to create more meaningful damage outside of demonsoul

Lots more needs to be fixed but i think these would be a good start.

Edited by Zeiyo, 21 December 2012 - 09:42 PM.


#90 Giky

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

My 5.2 wishlist

Warrior - warbringer nerfed, shockwave nerfed, defensive stance nerfed, cd's damage nerfed

Baam, best season evah

#91 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Me, for starters would love to:
-reduce the amount of instant stuns, interrupts and cc
-reduce melee uptime vs casters so casters actually can run from melee and kiting is a possibility
-make casters and healers cast abit more than one spell
-Alt gearing made easier during the season
It's not useful to just ask for those first three things. The expansion is how it is and they definitely will not be making such astronomical changes to how the game works (even if it's better). They seem to care a lot about PvP, but not enough to do those sorts of changes. Alt gearing and players trying to gear late into a season is a good issue to bring up.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Class specific:
Warrior
-Warbringer roots for 4seconds instead of stun
-Shockwave damage reduced by 90%, cooldown increased to similar cooldowns on that tier, threat increased to compensate it's tanking effect
-Avatar and Recklessness share cooldown of their duration, so they can not be stacked
-Disturpting shout reworked; replaces pummel but gives pummel aoe interrupt effect. Pummel still 15sec cd with this talent

Not a fan of any of these. I don't think Warbringer is a problem. The choices in that tier are all viable as is. The main issue with people dying to Warriors is Shockwave. Bringing it down to a 30 second cooldown would be the most appropriate thing to do. The damage of Heroic Leap and Shockwave are a little too strong for what they do. CD stacking from Avatar/Recklessness doesn't need to be changed. Disrupting Shout does not need to be changed.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Mage
-Alter Time undispellable
-Blazing Speed duration increased by 1second to bring it on line with other talents on same tier
-Glyph of Polymorph is now minor to bring more interesting choises in glyphs
-Deep Freeze 5sec duration for Frost, fire and arcane unchanged
-Frostbolt stacks once instead of 3 to bring it on a realistic level
-Spellsteal manacost reduced to 20k, using it gives a stacking debuff, increasing manacost by 50% per cast, stacks up to 3 (last cast being around the current manacost)
-Presence of Mind does not include Ring of Frost, or reduces it's cast time to 0.5sec
-Icy Flows reduce casting speed by 50% while active addition to it's current effect

Alter TIme is an interesting topic - it's really silly no matter how you look at it. If you can't dispel it, Mages are gaining a lot of survivability. If you can dispel it, Mages can potentially get screwed over (which is dumb and annoying to deal with) against only certain teams. I think undispellable is fine personally because the ability is not as black and white as "use here and you will be sure to live", but it's a hard choice. Don't care much about buffing Blazing Speed.. sure it's cool but not a glaring issue. We're looking for changes that will fix current PvP issues, not really "it would be cool to use this talent more" things. Glyph of Poly should stay major. I am torn about Deep Freeze 5 seconds because I don't think they would do that for Frost only. I'd rather it be something like: Deep Freeze lasts 5 seconds, but Glyph of Deep Freeze reduces the duration to 4 seconds. Frostbolt stacking immediately I'm not really concerned about. Current Spellsteal is perfect.. that needs no change. The problem with it was actually solved by making it cost so much mana. You can use it situationally, but not spam it. PoM not affecting RIng... sure people complain about it, but I don't think it needs to be changed. Icy Flows.. quality of life.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Shaman
-Totemic Restoration does not include Grounding and Tremor
-Wind Shear CD increased to 15sec, range reduced by 5-10yd
-Astral Shift can be used while stunned/silenced
-Healing Surge criticals reduced while in PvP combat (maybe not needed, would need alot of testing)
-Glyph of Purge removed from game
-Purge manacost increased while Restoration specialization activated

First one is definitely an issue. I don't think Grounding needs to be off of it, but it would be nice if it didn't double dip with the set bonus. Wind Shear is fine. Astral Shift is already usable while silenced, but I agree usable while stunned would be nice for them. Healing Surge is fine.. nerf Healing Surge they'll just use Gheal. Glyph of Purge should just make Purge has a short cooldown. Don't need to change mana cost of Purge.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Priest
-Glyph of Mass Dispel removed, Discipline has baseline 0.5sec, Shadow 1.5sec (haste affected)
-Mass Dispel only removes control effects, not other debuffs, still works as a offensive dispel to Block/Bubble
-While in Shadowform, healing done by priest reduced by -30% (brought to level with other hybrid healers)
-Dispelling Discpriest shield heals the target by 50% left of the remaining absorb as a 4sec HoT or instantly

Discipline needs more of their Glyphs baseline, yes, but I don't think removing Glyph of MD and making it baseline is the solution. Spriests no longer need defensive MD to assist their teammates. Just nerf that for Shadow. Shadow healing is fine - especially after PvP Power nerfs and Battle Fatigue. Just with MD nerf and possibly a small change to Void Shift, Spriests will be toned down. Disc Priests need help. I think the way they should get it is PW:Shield giving a 4 second freedom to the priest when used. Pain Suppression should be a 1.5 minute CD, as well. Their defensive cooldowns are ancient compared to things like Iron Bark and Healing Tide Totem.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Druid
-Predator's Swiftness doesn't affect Cyclone
-Using a finisher reduces cast time of Cyclone by 0.1sec per combopoint used (undispellable)
-Dps Feral Druids no longer can shapeshift out of roots
-Glyph of Dash removes roots when used together with Dash and Stampeding Roar. Dash cd reduced to have a rootbreaker every 1min (numbers can be tweaked)
-King of the Jungle and Berserking can no longer be stacked, they share a cd of each other skills duration
-Skull Bash manacost increasing debuff reduced by 10% and can be dispelled (magic)

I think Predatory Swiftness should include Cyclone and be undispellable, but put it on a 30 second trackable internal cooldown. I don't think it should be dispellable so they can manage and use them more effectively without worrying about people clearing it off all the time. Ferals not being able to shapeshift roots is definitely an issue. I don't think the cooldown on Dash/Stampeding roar should be lowered. Warriors having Safeguard to get out of roots is really obnoxious as it is. Ferals are already immune to polymorph completely so they don't deserve a break in the mobility department. I'm torn about nerfs to CD stacking.. KotJ+Berserk is high damage, but I really don't think it's a major issue. Completely remove the Skull Bash mana cost debuff - it doesn't even make sense. Displacer Beast should not be usable while Silenced. Iron Bark should be a 45 second cooldown.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Hunters
I honestly feel BM is now at a good state, hard to say anything about MM or Survival because literally nobody plays these specs

Marksman doesn't seem that bad. Hunters seem ok in general. Their CC is a little crazy, but they aren't that viable outside of being with a Warrior right now. I still think abandoning pets and resummoning pets for CDs is silly.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Death Knight(King)
-Survivability needs to be increased, otherwise I think they're decent. Hard to say because outside of TSG you don't see DK's

DKs are pretty bad at surviving, I agree. Their damage is fine. Maybe they could use another way to control their opponents via a talent or something.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Monks
-Never seen one at any decent level, too easy to interrupt and chaincc without stuns (healerone that is)
-Same thing with meleemonk, easy to kill, easy to cc; needs reworking

Yeah Monks suck. Don't even know where to start. Too easy to CC the healer. The stun thing is stupid, but it doesn't stop them from sucking at arena. Punch monks don't die that easy as far as I know. They just don't have good consistent CC to lock people down while killing them.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Warlock
-Damage of all specs increased outside of Dark Soul, reduced during Dark Soul
-Blood Fear removed and buried and never brought back

Don't think you can do that with Dark Soul because of PvE. And if you do you'll only get like 1% more damage. Blood Fear is stupid, but they are most likely not going to remove it. I think the Lock specs aren't that fun, but with only a small boost they will all be amazing and borderline overpowered in arena. Gotta be careful when you buff them.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Paladin
-Blinding Light has now a cast time same as Repentance
-Something needs to be done with Paladins not casting anything, hard to say what without affecting PvE. Maybe reduce PvP power effiency on instant cast and buff casted

I don't agree that Blinding Light should have a cast time. It's a 2 minute cooldown magical blinding effect. Yes you can CC for a long time as a Paladin, but they really do need those CC tools to stay a competitive healer. Yes, Paladins don't cast that often, but that shouldn't be changed either, IMO. As Koshimo said, it's all RNG. It's always been RNG how crits and Holy Power work for Paladins and I don't see a reason to change that. Making them cast more will make them weaker and I don't think they need to be weaker.

View PostCrawthz, on 21 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

Rogue
After gearing up I think they're in decent spot and when others get nerfed they are more than viable
I agree to this for the most part. I still think they need a little more survivability vs other melee. Obviously they shouldn't be able to just toe to toe a warrior, but it's kind of ridiculous right now. Possibly add 10% damage reduction while Recuperate is active.



I don't think the game is that far off from being fun and fair for most specs/classes in arena. The battle fatigue buff right now seems like a little too much for some healers. I think 23% might be a better number instead of 30%. Spriests, Ferals, and Warriors are all really strong classes right now, but nowhere near as broken as other specs have been throughout entire seasons in the past.

#92 Broxxy

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:53 PM

At this point, anything for the Marks Tree. Even if its zero damage buffs. Something meaningful to make it a nice complement to casters and melee as a utility class.

#93 GrieverZ

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

View PostRadejjj, on 21 December 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

nerf everything while buffing mages lol.

/thread.

#94 Mirionx

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:06 PM

View PostBaht, on 21 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

That IS a nerf to purge? removing the double purge from resto where it causes big problems.

It's to strong for enh and elemental aswell, no class should be able to have an double offensive dispel.

It even got nerfed for Priests, why should shamans be special with theirs?

#95 ROKMODE

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:15 PM

View PostMirionx, on 21 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

It's to strong for enh and elemental aswell, no class should be able to have an double offensive dispel.

It even got nerfed for Priests, why should shamans be special with theirs?
Yes, because homogenization has brought us so many good things in the past. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to nerf it, but your basis for doing so shouldn't be to make it like another class' toolset. That is the stupidity that brought us all the nonsensical homogenization in cataclysm.
Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#96 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

View PostTalbadar, on 21 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Alter TIme is an interesting topic - it's really silly no matter how you look at it. If you can't dispel it, Mages are gaining a lot of survivability. If you can dispel it, Mages can potentially get screwed over (which is dumb and annoying to deal with) against only certain teams. I think undispellable is fine personally because the ability is not as black and white as "use here and you will be sure to live", but it's a hard choice. Don't care much about buffing Blazing Speed.. sure it's cool but not a glaring issue. We're looking for changes that will fix current PvP issues, not really "it would be cool to use this talent more" things. Glyph of Poly should stay major. I am torn about Deep Freeze 5 seconds because I don't think they would do that for Frost only. I'd rather it be something like: Deep Freeze lasts 5 seconds, but Glyph of Deep Freeze reduces the duration to 4 seconds. Frostbolt stacking immediately I'm not really concerned about. Current Spellsteal is perfect.. that needs no change. The problem with it was actually solved by making it cost so much mana. You can use it situationally, but not spam it. PoM not affecting RIng... sure people complain about it, but I don't think it needs to be changed. Icy Flows.. quality of life.
thank you:)

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#97 Fakkaurinsta

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:23 PM

View PostKoshimo, on 21 December 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

ps instant heals aren't even close to broken because its complete rng, if they crit you keep someone alive if it doesn't crit they do nothing.
Anything based on RNG is broken

#98 Baht

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

View PostMirionx, on 21 December 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

It's to strong for enh and elemental aswell, no class should be able to have an double offensive dispel.

It even got nerfed for Priests, why should shamans be special with theirs?

maybe it is. Some serious changes needs to be made to the specs then and the playstyle in general then though. to make those specs viable post-nerf

#99 Necrolina

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:56 PM

I honestly don't get the fact the ele / enha shamans actually like that they are purge bots. Wouldn't you rather have other useful abilities instead of having to rely on your double purge for viability? :rolleyes:

#100 Poseyx

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:10 PM

HEY GUYS IM A MAGE LETS BASICALLY REMOVE FERALS ROOT SHIFTING, INSTANT CYCLONE AND THERE DAMAGE H3H3H3H3 NOT BIASED AT ALL BTW
www.Twitch.tv/wushington - Multi Gladiator feral stream

Mrlindv - Youtube channel




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