113 replies to this topic

[Viindz]

As the topic says, anyone else feeling the same way ? Im playing with a druid in 3s, and his healing is pretty dogshit atm. His in treeform and spamming healing, jk 60k crits.

This benefiths the melee cleaves, now we will get dog`d on rest of the season...

[Regent]

If healing is too high, melee cleaves don't work well. If healing is too low, they pull ahead. Its just a side effect of bad game design. If CC was tuned down, melee damage was tuned down, certain cds were nerfed then the game would be pretty good.

[TteSPORTSDoomsen]

The mistake was, to nerf every healers healingoutput which was really stupid. The only classes who needed it and do way too much overheal are paladins / resto shamans. the other classes should have never been effected by this. I cryed today when I tryed to live against a feral chaising me in 3s.

[Domesauce]

Yea I don't understand why they nerfed every healing ability in the game just to fix the 1 or 2 abilities from 1 or 2 classes that were healing for too much =/

Every team is cleave and shadowpriest because of this

[Dakkrothy]

this change made rdruid go from best healer to third best lOl

[TteSPORTSDoomsen]

Dakkrothy, on 20 December 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

this change made rdruid go from best healer to third best lOl

You are still crying a lot about that totem nerf do you? Can't understand how you can ever I mean ever see rdruid above rshaman.

[Nihi]

TteSPORTSDoomsen, on 20 December 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

You are still crying a lot about that totem nerf do you? Can't understand how you can ever I mean ever see rdruid above rshaman.

survivability in form of displacer / symbiosis and even barkskin just made druid the better choice pre healing nerf

[Claynz]

What i find most funny is that people whine about rDruids and rShaman  guess you forgot about discpriest and ofc the never existing spec MW Monk... or should i say class.

[Braindance]

Why are melee cleaves benefited the most?What dumb stereotype is the? EVERYONE that deals damage is benefited

[Sagild]

Braindance, on 20 December 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Why are melee cleaves benefited the most?What dumb stereotype is the? EVERYONE that deals damage is benefited

Because melee cleaves dmg cant be interrupt / dispelled and is in general more faceroll and easy to play than melee caster healer or wizard cleaves in general. Don't really see how you can even question this. Also the current state of the game with basically every class having an interrupt pretty much only benefits a melee cleave.

[Lawan]

YOLO POP HEALING CDS AT RIGHT TIEM U FINE, OK CUTE GURL

[Braindance]

Sagild, on 20 December 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

Because melee cleaves dmg cant be interrupt / dispelled and is in general more faceroll and easy to play than melee caster healer or wizard cleaves in general. Don't really see how you can even question this. Also the current state of the game with basically every class having an interrupt pretty much only benefits a melee cleave.

That is also the reason that casters have way more cc and utility than melees. More straightforward doesn't mean more 'faceroll" - at the end of the day it's who kills the other team faster. Just because casters substitute one damage global with a cc spell (fear, polymorph etc) doesn't make them less faceroll. Also do not  forget that interrupts were nerfed - it's other abilities from melees that shut down healers (shockwave etc).

[zsuper]

Braindance, on 20 December 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

That is also the reason that casters have way more cc and utility than melees. More straightforward doesn't mean more 'faceroll" - at the end of the day it's who kills the other team faster. Just because casters substitute one damage global with a cc spell (fear, polymorph etc) doesn't make them less faceroll. Also do not  forget that interrupts were nerfed - it's other abilities from melees that shut down healers (shockwave etc).

If I open hard on a Shaman, but it survives or trinkets and starts humping a pillar, I can't finish it, even if it gets away with 20% health. As soon as it gets around the pillar and casts a heal, it's almost back to 100%, so my entire opener was completely negated; it's all or nothing. The healing nerf didn't really change this, because casted heals (especially Shaman) were doing so much that there was overhealing.

Melee cleaves don't suffer from this. When the Shaman starts humping the pillar, melee can stick to it and continue doing high damage without having to deal with LoS. The only heals it will get off are instants, until it gets peels, where as against most casters, it can actually hard cast a heal without peels. Non-cooldowned instant heals don't fully heal their target, so melee cleaves benefit more from the healing reduction.

Edited by zsuper, 20 December 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[Crawthz]

Braindance, on 20 December 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

Also do not  forget that interrupts were nerfed

And to balance the longer cd interrupts, they added more interrupts and more stuns that does not DR
with anything. Also melees have more mobility than ever while castercontrol got nerfed or some cases stayed the same.

If you run anything else than kitty/kfc, you are almost(?) required to run with shadowpriest or play doublehealer because meleepressure and burst is getting out of hands.

[Braindance]

zsuper, on 20 December 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

If I open hard on a Shaman, but it survives or trinkets and starts humping a pillar, I can't finish it, even if it gets away with 20% health. As soon as it gets around the pillar and casts a heal, it's almost back to 100%, so my entire opener was completely negated; it's all or nothing. The healing nerf didn't really change this, because casted heals (especially Shaman) were doing so much that there was overhealing.

Melee cleaves don't suffer from this. When the Shaman starts humping the pillar, melee can stick to it and continue doing high damage without having to deal with LoS. The only heals it will get off are instants, until it gets peels, where as against most casters, it can actually hard cast a heal without peels. Non-cooldowned instant heals don't fully heal their target, so melee cleaves benefit more from the healing reduction.

I agree for the first part. For the second however I bolded the part where something doesn't seem right. It is a very bold statement to say that melee can stick to a target with no regards for los at the current metagame. In addition, the peels part applies to everyone - except of course if you can somehow cast without fear vs a mage,

[Braindance]

Crawthz, on 20 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

And to balance the longer cd interrupts, they added more interrupts and more stuns that does not DR
with anything. Also melees have more mobility than ever while castercontrol got nerfed or some cases stayed the same.

If you run anything else than kitty/kfc, you are almost(?) required to run with shadowpriest or play doublehealer because meleepressure and burst is getting out of hands.

it's no longer out of hand - it is strong yes but it is supposed to be this way. That is how melees (apart from rogues, who also are too weak atm) are compensated for the lack of the superior control offered by casters. It has been like this forever (apart from wotlk where at the end casters had far superior burst than melees). My initial point is that this stereotype started at s6 with tsg which was very easy to play and it runs up to this day. It is noteworthy though that the original TSG players still up to date are amongst the top of their ladders or r1, which show that even a straightforward comb has more depth than what most people think.

[Jontex]

LSP COMEBACK BITCHES

[Hakasa]

Warriors pretty much have 55% MS now, problem?

[Braindance]

Hakasa, on 20 December 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Warriors pretty much have 55% MS now, problem?

So do hunters, monks and rogues (and dk if you account for necrotic)

[Enaina]

zsuper, on 20 December 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

The healing nerf didn't really change this, because casted heals (especially Shaman) were doing so much that there was overhealing.

This is actually a good point. Critting healing surge with unleash up on target and Earth shield is usually a 310k + 30% of that heal to the lowest member, before the healing debuff that is. In that way it's a buff to Resto Shamans. Now it heals around 200k crit, maybe 180k, which still usually tops everyone the target.

On the other hand you could argue that, since the healing debuff is %, we get hit (by the nerf) harder because we have better healing and therefor also rely on that healing. Problem is when other healers have so low healing that it isn't sufficient to keep people alive during high pressure. IMO healers should be able to outheal almost any damage outside of burst windows, at the expense of inefficient healing=oom. From a resto shaman PoV I find the healing in a good spot. I can't just use healing surge to keep people alive.

Not saying anything about resto shamans being worse than anyone btw.

Edited by Enaina, 20 December 2012 - 09:32 AM.