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Is Nether Tempest THAT much better?


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#41 Execx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:38 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 19 December 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

Equal overall chance to proc brain freeze with no haste, once you start adding haste nether tempest gains extra ticks at a much faster rate, and each extra tick has the same chance to give a proc. living bomb obviously catches up every time it also gains a tick, but it takes so much more haste rating to gain an additional bomb tick due to the far longer duration in between ticks. I've also tested living bomb a little and I'm not sure if it's because even retards recognise the spell from cata, but far more people seem to know to run to their healer to use living bomb to break cc then with nether tempest

True but it will only be a matter of time till the same thing happens with tempest, and the range/consistency of breaking cc with tempest is greater then lb, at 12.51 you get an extra bomb tick vs 2 ticks of tempest. I hate how much we rely on our bombs. Still gonna play around with lb and see what I find.

past that 12.51 mark most mages wont hit the 20.85 or even 29.12 mark

Edited by Execx, 19 December 2012 - 04:40 PM.


#42 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostExecx, on 19 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:



True but it will only be a matter of time till the same thing happens with tempest, and the range/consistency of breaking cc with tempest is greater then lb, at 12.51 you get an extra bomb tick vs 2 ticks of tempest. I hate how much we rely on our bombs. Still gonna play around with lb and see what I find.

past that 12.51 mark most mages wont hit the 20.85 or even 29.12 mark
I have almost 30% haste with frost armour and priest buff xD just sad that 9/10 physical damage cleave teams faceroll train me so I rarely get to use it :(

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 19 December 2012 - 05:01 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#43 Execx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 19 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

I have almost 30% haste with frost armour and priest buff xD just sad that 9/10 physical damage cleave teams faceroll train me so I rarely get to use it :(

whaat no way, I just checked your armory and you haven't even broken 13% which means you'd have 25% at best, unless I'm missing something. I have an op trinket and 15.13% base haste w/ priest buff and frost armor i can't even hit 30%

edit: btw super nice reforge! was trying to get near perfect hit and you're the only person I've seen nail it on the nose. thanks again.

Edited by Execx, 19 December 2012 - 05:43 PM.


#44 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:35 PM

View PostExecx, on 19 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

whaat no way, I just checked your armory and you haven't even broken 13% which means you'd have 25% at best, unless I'm missing something. I have an op trinket and 15.13% base haste w/ priest buff and frost armor i can't even hit 30%
27% with armor and priest buff, sorry. will be 28% when i get cap this week :)

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#45 Crawthz

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:56 PM

View PostToxile, on 19 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

This is so stupid its unreal;

View PostIsumi, on 19 December 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

lol


why boomkins go for haste? they won't be casting anything....
why dotclasses go for haste? nearly all dots are instants....

Don't know about you, but I can get 9.16%(maybe squeeze it to 10%) haste while staying above hitcap without armor on, which isn't enough for 2nd point of NT proc, I had 4.24% when reforging every haste off? With mastery/crit gear I wont hit 12.55% haste without SP or without frostarmor. And defensive value of Mage/Molten far outweights one or two dot ticks when frostarmor is on.

Correct me if I am wrong tho.
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#46 Saikx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

why the fuck should you ever use frostarmor its so shit compared to the other 2, I even unbound it

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#47 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

View PostSaikx, on 19 December 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

why the fuck should you ever use frostarmor its so shit compared to the other 2, I even unbound it
vs melees that dont ever switch to you? :)

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#48 Crawthz

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:28 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 19 December 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

vs melees that dont ever switch to you? :)

What meleecleave doesn't train a mage? Last time melee didn't want to target me is when I ran ele/mage/disc this season. You can propably imagine why ele or disc sounds better target for drooling meleecleaves.

Edited by Crawthz, 20 December 2012 - 04:37 AM.

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#49 Kungfucow

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

I tried out NT last night on some advice from a couple guys I was running SP/Mage/Rsham with. In that particular comp I found it to be much more effective than frost bomb. I felt like I was doing FAR MORE damage while being trained(kitty cleave for example). The reality of today's arena is an abundance of instant cc/interrupts/reflects etc.. which all make setting up hard casts that much more difficult and ultimately time consuming. Time spent juking is now spent casting instants. It's really nice as a mage being able to have a instant cast dot that does decent damage which also leads to a proc because it opens up the possibility of LOSing dps while still pumping excellent damage in to their entire team w/ Spriest/Mage dots/Instant Procs.

I didn't bother reforging to haste because I wasn't sure if I would like the change or not but I am contemplating it now after reading this thread. I guess my question is does the benefit of a faster bomb and quicker proc outweigh the extra damage you get from your FFB and FOF procs/Pet DMG stacking mastery instead?

#50 Jamal

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:35 PM

I think haste is definitely the way to go if you're playing with NT, a lot of my kills seem to be coming from randomly getting back to back procs right away.

That being said I don't like the direction we're being taken as a mage, I hope the frostbolt buffs promote casting but i'm very pessimistic about our future.

#51 Pritchard

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:09 AM

View PostJamal, on 22 December 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

That being said I don't like the direction we're being taken as a mage, I hope the frostbolt buffs promote casting but i'm very pessimistic about our future.

likewise, its just becoming a dot class, not the reason i made my mage.

#52 Rith

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:17 AM

Is there even a point to play frost anymore for mages if they have to use nether tempest? Why not just go fire? Does frost have something significant that fire doesn't? (not a troll a serious question)

#53 venruki

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:25 AM

View PostRith, on 24 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Is there even a point to play frost anymore for mages if they have to use nether tempest? Why not just go fire? Does frost have something significant that fire doesn't? (not a troll a serious question)

brainfreeze(from nt), fingers of frost, frozen orb, a pet

#54 Jamal

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:16 PM

View PostRith, on 24 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Is there even a point to play frost anymore for mages if they have to use nether tempest? Why not just go fire? Does frost have something significant that fire doesn't? (not a troll a serious question)

The few fire mages I've fought seem to do less damage than NT, although fire does offer a tempting 1 shot NT feels more well rounded.  The only benefit I can think of for fire is dragon's breath, and I wouldn't touch arcane unless you're Abn of course.

Edited by Jamal, 25 December 2012 - 12:16 PM.


#55 Snuggli

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

since bomb nerf, all our kills are from random back to back procs gimping whoever happens to be targetted at the time.


frost still viable, fire doesn't seem as good yet

View PostBraindance, on 11 October 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

Go listen to some Bieber shit and leave me alone fucko.

#56 Niezeremake

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

View PostSnuggli, on 25 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

since bomb nerf, all our kills are from random back to back procs gimping whoever happens to be targetted at the time.


frost still viable, fire doesn't seem as good yet
fire is viable it's just l2p issues mainly
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#57 Toxile

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 05:23 PM

Both mage's specs are fine, both viable and both still top tier. It's just the fact mage play style has changed so much that i find it so god damn boring, It's just reliant on random procs and waiting for a 1 min cooldown or back to back procs with nether tempest. If i wanted to play a terrible sustained damage dot class i'd go play UA warlock.

#58 deprivelol

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 04:09 AM

View PostToxile, on 25 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Both mage's specs are fine, both viable and both still top tier. It's just the fact mage play style has changed so much that i find it so god damn boring, It's just reliant on random procs and waiting for a 1 min cooldown or back to back procs with nether tempest. If i wanted to play a terrible sustained damage dot class i'd go play UA warlock.

yea, i agree it's a really boring play style :(

#59 stalebagel

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 07:29 AM

In my experience with NT fire, you can do more damage in a deep freeze if you set up your pyro's appropriately but the consistent damage is significantly lower than NT frost.  It seems as though the specs have taken a role reversal from last expansion. Frost is more about sustained damage and multi-target pressure with tools like glyph of icelance, orb, and multi-target nether tempest damage similar to how combustion was for fire but on a lower cooldown (1 min for orb).  Fire has become more burst oriented with low sustained damage from scorch and nether tempest (no brain freeze procs) but insane burst opportunities centered around deep freeze pryos.
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#60 Moreudirl

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 09:56 AM

View PostBurtthemage, on 18 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

nothing but if ur gonna play nether tempest good ull have it on every targetable thing in the arena for max procs / dps and the bounce damage breaks it too

wrong, only your latest applied NT procs FFB. Read brainfreeze tooltip

sorry if someone corrected him already i havent read EVERY page




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