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Is Nether Tempest THAT much better?


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#21

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:20 PM

View PostBurtthemage, on 18 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

bomb is better but takes more skill tempest is bad but its good for ppl who cant use bomb tempest only good in like enh warr hpaly teams.


btw it breaks fears in 1 tick and rof and pollys. its garbo


what does not break rof/fear nowdays?

#22 Burtthemage

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:23 PM

View PostZerlog, on 18 December 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

what does not break rof/fear nowdays?

nothing but if ur gonna play nether tempest good ull have it on every targetable thing in the arena for max procs / dps and the bounce damage breaks it too

#23 affix

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

View PostExecx, on 18 December 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

idk maybe its just me but i did helllllla testing with mobs and even have it on vods of it breaking polys tons of times not even playing with lance glyph
Yeah, my bad, I just did more testing and it is indeed breaking poly, I had it on DPS right near healers multiple times the first day I tried it and it never broke, but in controlled testing it broke poly

#24 deprivelol

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

^_^

#25 Execx

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:09 PM

I'm leaning towards tempest is amazing in caster comps and bomb is best for melee comps.

#26 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:31 PM

View PostBurtthemage, on 18 December 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

nothing but if ur gonna play nether tempest good ull have it on every targetable thing in the arena for max procs / dps and the bounce damage breaks it too
you know that only the most recently cast dot counts towards procs right

jk ive seen how you reacted when getting 2.2, doubt you bothered to read it :)

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 18 December 2012 - 11:31 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#27 Ermurazorqt

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:14 AM

What armor do you guys use with Nether Tempest? Glyph of armor + Molten for 16% less dmg when tunneled, Mage armor for more dmg with lance + FFB and 35% magic effect reduced or simply frost armor for 7% haste for more proccs?

#28 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:35 AM

View PostErmurazorqt, on 19 December 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

What armor do you guys use with Nether Tempest? Glyph of armor + Molten for 16% less dmg when tunneled, Mage armor for more dmg with lance + FFB and 35% magic effect reduced or simply frost armor for 7% haste for more proccs?
mage armor vs wizards, molten vs melee that train you, frost armor vs melee that don't train you

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#29 kannetixx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:50 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 18 December 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

you know that only the most recently cast dot counts towards procs right

jk ive seen how you reacted when getting 2.2, doubt you bothered to read it :)

where does it say that only the most recent cast is  the dot that counts toward procs?
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#30 Execx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:12 AM

View Postkannetixx, on 19 December 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

where does it say that only the most recent cast is  the dot that counts toward procs?

on brain freeze in your spellbook.

#31 kannetixx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:00 AM

View PostExecx, on 19 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

on brain freeze in your spellbook.

:( i didnt read it either
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#32 Caldir

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

frostbomb isnt playable now ?
i think the only way to make the max dmg is tick frostbomb in deep freeze without fireblast

Edited by Caldir, 19 December 2012 - 11:14 AM.


#33 Jamal

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:05 PM

After a few days of playing around with everything here's what I think

For 2s, hands down frost bomb, NT isn't going to give you enough burst to kill someone.

For 3s, If you're playing with a caster; ie godcomps or mls, NT feels pretty strong but you have to change your playstyle

-If you're playing a more bursty comp like war/mage/healer or mage/rog/healer then I'd say stick with frost bomb for more burst

For 5s, I'm honestly not sure haven't had enough time to test it out lately.

This all being said, I think mastery is better for Frost Bomb and Haste is better for NT.


Related; i've heard rumors of living bomb procing ffb at a 25% rate, can anyone confirm this? Might be worth using LB for 3s if this is accurate.

Any thoughts on this?

Ps; Fire is sleeper op

#34 Crawthz

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

Why would you go haste for NT? You wont be casting anything and NT is for FFB and FoF only.

Not sure what to go when EU finaly got the bombnerfs, but I'd assume Frostbomb against castercleave and NT against meleecleave.

What glyphs do you guys run now with? I've been playing around with Icy Veins glyph for trolling, but not sure what to have in all seriousness.
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#35 Nihi

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 19 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Why would you go haste for NT? You wont be casting anything and NT is for FFB and FoF only.

Not sure what to go when EU finaly got the bombnerfs, but I'd assume Frostbomb against castercleave and NT against meleecleave.

What glyphs do you guys run now with? I've been playing around with Icy Veins glyph for trolling, but not sure what to have in all seriousness.

Frostbomb nerf is live @eu

Obv haste is best for NT - dot tick speed benefits from haste

Glyphs:
Poly
Armor
Deep

Edited by Nihi, 19 December 2012 - 02:02 PM.


#36 Toxile

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:46 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 19 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Why would you go haste for NT? You wont be casting anything and NT is for FFB and FoF only.

This is so stupid its unreal;

Edited by Toxile, 19 December 2012 - 03:46 PM.


#37 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

View PostJamal, on 19 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

For 2s, hands down frost bomb, NT isn't going to give you enough burst to kill someone.
yes, but unless you are playing double dps why would you not be fire in 2s? 10000x more pressure and burst

View PostJamal, on 19 December 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

Related; i've heard rumors of living bomb procing ffb at a 25% rate, can anyone confirm this? Might be worth using LB for 3s if this is accurate.

Any thoughts on this?
Correct, but you misunderstand how the bombs are designed to interact with brain freeze

With 0 haste:
Frost bomb, 10 secs cool down, hits once, 100% proc chance
Living bomb, ticks 4 times over 10 seconds (or close to), 25% proc chance per tick
Nether tempest, ticks 10/11 (can't remember) times over 10 seconds, 10% proc chance (ish) per tick

Each bomb is balanced to give a mathematically equal number of procs over a long (boss) fight, but nether tempest shines for frost because it scales so well with haste :)

View PostToxile, on 19 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

This is so stupid its unreal;
Unlike most other posts on aj? :P

prime example

View PostBurtthemage, on 18 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

bomb is better but takes more skill tempest is bad but its good for ppl who cant use bomb tempest only good in like enh warr hpaly teams.
redefining retarded xD

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 19 December 2012 - 03:56 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#38 Isumi

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:05 PM

View PostCrawthz, on 19 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Why would you go haste for NT? You wont be casting anything and NT is for FFB and FoF only.


lol


why boomkins go for haste? they won't be casting anything....
why dotclasses go for haste? nearly all dots are instants....

#39 Execx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:11 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 19 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

yes, but unless you are playing double dps why would you not be fire in 2s? 10000x more pressure and burst


Correct, but you misunderstand how the bombs are designed to interact with brain freeze

With 0 haste:
Frost bomb, 10 secs cool down, hits once, 100% proc chance
Living bomb, ticks 4 times over 10 seconds (or close to), 25% proc chance per tick
Nether tempest, ticks 10/11 (can't remember) times over 10 seconds, 10% proc chance (ish) per tick

Each bomb is balanced to give a mathematically equal number of procs over a long (boss) fight, but nether tempest shines for frost because it scales so well with haste :)


Unlike most other posts on aj? :P

prime example

redefining retarded xD

+repped thx for the info mate, lamaj I just played around with lb and like this informed man said it seems to have an equal proc rate of tempest. To point out the obvious that I just realized myself, if you drop a nova right as bomb explodes it does GREAT damage (80k crits on dummys, no cds) making it extremely appealing due to controlled (non poly breaking, except with explosion) dot, equal proc rate for brain freeze, burst potential, and not on your frost/arcane tree so you can always spread under any situation. Gonna try some 3's with it and report back.

#40 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:24 PM

View PostExecx, on 19 December 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:



+repped thx for the info mate, lamaj I just played around with lb and like this informed man said it seems to have an equal proc rate of tempest. To point out the obvious that I just realized myself, if you drop a nova right as bomb explodes it does GREAT damage (80k crits on dummys, no cds) making it extremely appealing due to controlled (non poly breaking, except with explosion) dot, equal proc rate for brain freeze, burst potential, and not on your frost/arcane tree so you can always spread under any situation. Gonna try some 3's with it and report back.
Equal overall chance to proc brain freeze with no haste, once you start adding haste nether tempest gains extra ticks at a much faster rate, and each extra tick has the same chance to give a proc. living bomb obviously catches up every time it also gains a tick, but it takes so much more haste rating to gain an additional bomb tick due to the far longer duration in between ticks.

Oh and also bomb does around 50% of its damage in the explosion, so bomb being dispelled is far more costly then nether tempest

I've also tested living bomb a little and I'm not sure if it's because even retards recognise the spell from cata, but far more people seem to know to run to their healer to use living bomb to break cc then with nether tempest

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 19 December 2012 - 04:36 PM.

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)




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