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Reduce dependency on Sac


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#1 Eiviyn

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

So let me open by saying that I love sac specs. I couldn't be happier about having the option to not use a pet. However, it feels now like taking a pet is a downside.

Soul Link talent gives +20% hp to you regardless of sacrifice. Hp bonus from having both sac and SL removed.
+2% life every 5 sec removed from sac and made baseline (part of Fel Armor?).
These two changes would leave sac exactly as it is, while enabling some of the survivability of using a sac spec to translate into pet specs.

Boost pet damage.
Right now, aff and destro use sac specs in PvE because using a pet is a dps loss. Pretty simple fix. Bring pets up to par. Furthermore bring ALL pets up to par. I'd still probably use a felhunter in arena anyway, but it feels a little overkill that every other pet not only is less useful, but also does less dps.

Boost pet life.
Glyphed water elemental: 240k hp. Talented felhunter: 200k hp. Rather silly given resummoning a water elemental takes all of 1 sec. Talented pets should at least be on par with mage elementals. Furthermore, again, make the hp of all pets in line with eachother. They don't have to be identical, but there's really no reason why the felhunter should, again, have the most hp (bar VW) and the most utility.

Wishful thinking: Let pets jump.
Someone jumps down a ledge in BE arena? Please let my pet follow. I honestly can't see this happening, but it's worth mentioning. Perhaps give the Imp's Flee ability to all pets?

Lastly, and most importantly;
If I order my pet to attack someone, don't override my order.
Ever played an RTS game where units decide they can give themselves better orders than what you told them to? Nah, me neither, because that would be batshit insane. If I fear a target, my pet should not just randomly decide to either attack someone else or idle by my side. It should do exactly what I told it to; nothing more, nothing less. This is a stupid mechanic.

I'm EU. Can't post on US forums. AJ closest place I could hope to get it read by someone who could make a difference. Nothing major, just I can see sac getting a nerf at some point because everyone takes it, rather than addressing the real issue of pets sucking.

#2 Coldizzle

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:39 PM

they need to make an skill that bring the pet back for you side with cd obviously but they should do it.

Edited by Coldizzle, 15 December 2012 - 12:39 PM.


#3 Execx

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:53 PM

View PostEiviyn, on 15 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

So let me open by saying that I love sac specs. I couldn't be happier about having the option to not use a pet. However, it feels now like taking a pet is a downside.

Boost pet damage.
Right now, aff and destro use sac specs in PvE because using a pet is a dps loss. Pretty simple fix. Bring pets up to par. Furthermore bring ALL pets up to par. I'd still probably use a felhunter in arena anyway, but it feels a little overkill that every other pet not only is less useful, but also does less dps.

Boost pet life.
Glyphed water elemental: 240k hp. Talented felhunter: 200k hp. Rather silly given resummoning a water elemental takes all of 1 sec. Talented pets should at least be on par with mage elementals. Furthermore, again, make the hp of all pets in line with eachother. They don't have to be identical, but there's really no reason why the felhunter should, again, have the most hp (bar VW) and the most utility.

These 2 SOOOOO much, I don't understand why they got rid of the old shadow bite damage increased by amount of dots was so good. Pets should benefit from resi or have hp pools buffed to be in line with master at least or something, anything really.

#4 Nycto

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

I dont think giving a straight health buff is a good idea, it also won't really solve anything. I think they need to just remove the current soul link and implement the previous soul link instead as the talent.

The health regen from sac needs to be removed from sac and given to affliction as baseline, killing yourself because you want to cast your spells is beyond retarded.

Remove cast while running - casting while running is beyond fucking dumb and should not be in the game for any class.

I think a huge problem with the sacrifice damage and pets is blizzard just didn't think of all alternatives, in my mind i'm guessing they saw it as "well if they take sac they lose all the benefits from the pet!(which i guess is soul link, and the pets main spell which you get anyway). Just very poor design.

Being able to cast full dots instantly on 4 targets isn't fun and is pretty shit for both teams, it should be left in game(but changed) because it can be near impossible to cast a row of dots vs some teams early on, however when you use it it should start the cd on soul swap, soul swap glyph should also be baseline now.

The damage doesn't need buffing, it needs re-working, all of the damage affliction does completely relies on having all 3 dots on the target, 10 stack agony and haunt, you can just dispel any target with haunt and destroy warlocks damage.

Something has to be done about dispelling as well, dispelling a haunted target just punishes a warlock way too much, it shouldn't be undispellable but there should be something like a refund of shard or increase your casting speed for next 3-4 seconds by 30% etc.  I think a damage on dispel similar to UA's would be good, at least then dispelling the target would be very good but come with a moderate risk.

edit: 90% of this isnt even related to what you said i just wanted to moan about the state of affliction ;(

Edited by Nycto, 15 December 2012 - 01:43 PM.


#5 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

View PostEiviyn, on 15 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Boost pet life.
Glyphed water elemental: 240k hp. Talented felhunter: 200k hp. Rather silly given resummoning a water elemental takes all of 1 sec. Talented pets should at least be on par with mage elementals. Furthermore, again, make the hp of all pets in line with eachother. They don't have to be identical, but there's really no reason why the felhunter should, again, have the most hp (bar VW) and the most utility.
quoting a pve frost glyph that no pvp mage would ever dream of taking is maybe not the best argument to use :)

Hakfu said:

My personal opinion about why PHD/ATC/Beastcleave are not being that succesful on Tournaments is that in many cases it relies on the enemy making an error...In a sense, that makes them the underdog...Hunter's have never really been that OP. People just have the image that hunters should be something to be stomped over

#6 Eiviyn

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 15 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

quoting a pve frost glyph that no pvp mage would ever dream of taking is maybe not the best argument to use :)

That doesn't change this particular point.

#7 Eiviyn

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostNycto, on 15 December 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

I dont think giving a straight health buff is a good idea, it also won't really solve anything. I think they need to just remove the current soul link and implement the previous soul link instead as the talent.

The health regen from sac needs to be removed from sac and given to affliction as baseline, killing yourself because you want to cast your spells is beyond retarded.

Remove cast while running - casting while running is beyond fucking dumb and should not be in the game for any class.

I think a huge problem with the sacrifice damage and pets is blizzard just didn't think of all alternatives, in my mind i'm guessing they saw it as "well if they take sac they lose all the benefits from the pet!(which i guess is soul link, and the pets main spell which you get anyway). Just very poor design.

Being able to cast full dots instantly on 4 targets isn't fun and is pretty shit for both teams, it should be left in game(but changed) because it can be near impossible to cast a row of dots vs some teams early on, however when you use it it should start the cd on soul swap, soul swap glyph should also be baseline now.

The damage doesn't need buffing, it needs re-working, all of the damage affliction does completely relies on having all 3 dots on the target, 10 stack agony and haunt, you can just dispel any target with haunt and destroy warlocks damage.

Something has to be done about dispelling as well, dispelling a haunted target just punishes a warlock way too much, it shouldn't be undispellable but there should be something like a refund of shard or increase your casting speed for next 3-4 seconds by 30% etc.  I think a damage on dispel similar to UA's would be good, at least then dispelling the target would be very good but come with a moderate risk.

edit: 90% of this isnt even related to what you said i just wanted to moan about the state of affliction ;(

My point was to just highlight issues regarding pets without buffing or nerfing sac specs.

I think we all know affliction needs a huge re-work that it's just never going to get. The most enjoyable warlock spec (imo) had it's back broken with MoP. Whoever designed it has ruined aff PvP. Not even talking balance here, they could buff whatever they wanted but the spec is just fundamentally ruined.

#8 Domesauce

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:00 AM

It's really annoying to be afraid to Sacrifice my pet for damage because I rely so heavily on Sacrificial Pact for staying alive. Can they just take out the stupid parts of the mechanic and make it a flat 200k absorb on a 1 minute CD so it's actually consistent? Getting screwed over by sac'd/dead/low hp pet is unbelievably dumb.

And then can they just take out the stupid parts of the Soul Link mechanic and make it flat mitigation that doesn't rely on having a pet out so I can still Sacrifice?

Some of these mechanics just make no sense to me and don't work properly. Sacrifice is so good right now because you can double/triple CS and dispel, but it just doesn't work right with our only good survivability talent.

#9 Bonduz

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

i agree

#10 zajklon

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

as demo do u guys actually use a fh in arena? o_O




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