Jump to content

elementary school shooting in CT


  • Please log in to reply
234 replies to this topic

#81 Hobbeś

Hobbeś
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tanaris
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 3413
  • Talents: Unholy

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:02 AM

View PostJayru, on 15 December 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

and the UK has a lower crime rate.  

source please?

#82 Bloodriot

Bloodriot
  • Members
  • Posts: 10409

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:02 AM

View PostDU5KNOIR, on 15 December 2012 - 03:56 AM, said:


the argument against gun laws is conservative? lol

not innately conservative but probably held by more cons than libs
Posted Image

#83 Buglamp

Buglamp
  • Members
  • Posts: 7068

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:05 AM

It's kind of libertarian which is part of the larger "conservative" movement / philosophy or whatever. The right, which is conservative mainly socially at this point but is often just called conservative or republican is ideologically against more strict gun laws.

#84 Buglamp

Buglamp
  • Members
  • Posts: 7068

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:10 AM

What do we make of this -

http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/1440764.stm

?

Was on reddit. I guess, like prohibition of drugs, when you make it illegal it brings more business/money to smugglers and ends up causing more problems? This is kind of old though, I wonder if that continued until today.

#85 Bloodriot

Bloodriot
  • Members
  • Posts: 10409

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:10 AM

View PostBuglamp, on 15 December 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Also most gun related deaths in the US are gang related I'm pretty sure, I doubt the EU has the same degree of issue with gangs. The US is huge and states vary pretty dramatically - certain states/cities make up a disproportionate % of gun violence as a result of issues most places just don't have.

Gun control would cut down on domestic gun death but I assume it wouldn't impact gang violence that much as they don't typically buy legal. I guess having legal guns available leaks some into the gang realm but I'd guess not that much - correct me if I'm wrong though.

It's possible not having guns available to the general populace(not going to happen, but hypothetically) would stop some of these random civilian killings by disturbed people, but I'm not sure they wouldn't find some other possibly worse method(poison, explosives can potentially cause more damage). Though perhaps their mental state is such that anything too elaborate is unlikely.

We do have a ton of guns though, holy shit -

http://en.wikipedia....pita_by_country

There are loads of gangs in cities, but they're mostly armed with knives rather than guns.
Posted Image

#86 Jayru

Jayru
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Bloodfeather
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3396
  • Talents: Survival

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

View PostBuglamp, on 15 December 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Also most gun related deaths in the US are gang related I'm pretty sure, I doubt the EU has the same degree of issue with gangs. The US is huge and states vary pretty dramatically - certain states/cities make up a disproportionate % of gun violence as a result of issues most places just don't have.

Gun control would cut down on domestic gun death but I assume it wouldn't impact gang violence that much as they don't typically buy legal. I guess having legal guns available leaks some into the gang realm but I'd guess not that much - correct me if I'm wrong though.

It's possible not having guns available to the general populace(not going to happen, but hypothetically) would stop some of these random civilian killings by disturbed people, but I'm not sure they wouldn't find some other possibly worse method(poison, explosives can potentially cause more damage). Though perhaps their mental state is such that anything too elaborate is unlikely.

We do have a ton of guns though, holy shit -

http://en.wikipedia....pita_by_country

The legal gun market is the same as illegal, all the guns on the "illegal" market were bought legally at one time and most of the time.  The legal market guns are bought by people that can buy guns, who pass it off to people that can't.  There's a top 20 list of the stores that supply most of these guns, the gripe is these stores turn a blind eye to straw buys.  Law enforcement can't do anything since everything is legal.  Private gun sales between citizens is perfectly legal providing you don't knowingly sell to a felon.  

The cities that make up a disproportionate number of gun crimes don't have the highest rates of gun ownership, but the states usually have more "lax" gun laws.  Nothing short of outright bans, and confiscation of weapons stops the premed killings.  

And I think the most recent stat is 92-95 guns per 100 people.  The average gun owner has four guns.  35%-40% of Americans claim to have a gun in the household.  49 of 50 states now allow conceal carry I believe, a court just shot down Illinois' ban on permits. My state just hit the highest number of CCW/CHP/CHL permits in the U.S. with 1 million.  My state supposedly has 10-15 million guns.

#87 Bloodriot

Bloodriot
  • Members
  • Posts: 10409

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:11 AM

View PostBuglamp, on 15 December 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

What do we make of this -

http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/1440764.stm

?

Was on reddit. I guess, like prohibition of drugs, when you make it illegal it brings more business/money to smugglers and ends up causing more problems? This is kind of old though, I wonder if that continued until today.

In 2006, writing in the British Journal of Criminology, Dr Jeanine Baker and Dr Samara McPhedran found no measurable effect detectable from the 1997 firearms legislation with ARIMA statistical analysis [11] but in subsequent years firearm homicides declined. In 2012 the Home Office reported that, "in 2010/11, firearms were involved in 11,227 recorded offences in England and Wales, the seventh consecutive annual fall".[12] Firearms statistics in England and Wales include airguns and imitations guns, which make up a high proportion of these recorded offences (see under "Firearms crime" below).
Posted Image

#88 Buglamp

Buglamp
  • Members
  • Posts: 7068

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:16 AM

View PostJayru, on 15 December 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

The legal gun market is the same as illegal, all the guns on the "illegal" market were bought legally at one time and most of the time.  The legal market guns are bought by people that can buy guns, who pass it off to people that can't.  There's a top 20 list of the stores that supply most of these guns, the gripe is these stores turn a blind eye to straw buys.  Law enforcement can't do anything since everything is legal.  Private gun sales between citizens is perfectly legal providing you don't knowingly sell to a felon.

Illegal guns can come in from out of the country though. I'm guessing for the US, that's not necessary however. We probably send more into Mexico than they send here.

Private gun sales should probably not be legal though, no background check should = no gun.

#89 Jayru

Jayru
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Bloodfeather
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3396
  • Talents: Survival

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostBuglamp, on 15 December 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

Illegal guns can come in from out of the country though. I'm guessing for the US, that's not necessary however. We probably send more into Mexico than they send here.

Private gun sales should probably not be legal though, no background check should = no gun.

2,800,000 guns legally imported into the U.S. in 2010, but as you said--there's no reason to get one illegally from overseas.  Why obtain illegally from another country when you can do it "legally" and easier here?  Plus the U.S. has the most arms manufacturers in the world.  As for Mexico, in past 5 years 68,000 guns confiscated by Mexican authorities traced back to the U.S.  Some 2/3rds of guns used in crimes in Mexico originated from (not just made) the U.S.

Private sales is really sticky subject.  Deals with straw buys, passing on family heirlooms, there's no official gun registry in the U.S., not sure why no ban on private sales but that is left to the states anyway.  The only private sales that are really regulated/illegal is medicine, drugs, stolen property, food (?), that I can think of.  I think the gov't sees guns like selling cars/houses/property I guess, no reason for gov't to get involved unless it's for paperwork to show who owns what.

#90 Hobbeś

Hobbeś
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tanaris
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 3413
  • Talents: Unholy

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:42 AM

View PostBloodriot, on 15 December 2012 - 04:11 AM, said:

In 2006, writing in the British Journal of Criminology, Dr Jeanine Baker and Dr Samara McPhedran found no measurable effect detectable from the 1997 firearms legislation with ARIMA statistical analysis [11] but in subsequent years firearm homicides declined. In 2012 the Home Office reported that, "in 2010/11, firearms were involved in 11,227 recorded offences in England and Wales, the seventh consecutive annual fall".[12] Firearms statistics in England and Wales include airguns and imitations guns, which make up a high proportion of these recorded offences (see under "Firearms crime" below).
There's also http://www.unodc.org...s/homicide.html if you're interested in the homicide by firearm statistics for the UK. Sixty-two in 1999 vs 93 in 2001 (2001 having the highest number in the past decade). It is 40%+ more but if you want to present your statistics like that, let's say the rate rose from 0.1 per 100,000 people to 0.2 an astounding 100% increase! (evil stats presentation)

#91 Hobbeś

Hobbeś
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tanaris
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 3413
  • Talents: Unholy

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:56 AM

Quote

'Mass Effect' Facebook Page Attacked Because Misidentified Shooting Suspect Liked It

Posted Image

#92 Slashgiggle

Slashgiggle
  • LocationHome of the Brave

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:59 AM

There's gun shows in Arizona where you can literally just hand somebody money and MAYBE sign a piece of paper and walk away from the booth with a semi-automatic weapon
Fernando Torres, Lord of Football

#93 Namechangex

Namechangex
  • Members
  • Posts: 1239

Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:00 AM

ye fff
Please use an appropriate signature; thanks! Use only common abbreviations and acronyms, and then give their definition as soon after their first use as possible. Occasionally, however, an abbreviation or acronym may be so familiar to intended audiences that it may be used without a definition. In fact, some may be more familiar than the full name. http://www.arenajunk...-rules-2272014/

#94 Zaephyr

Zaephyr
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 3662
  • Talents: Blood 2/0/0/0/2/.

Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:16 AM

View PostHobbeś, on 15 December 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

Posted Image

people are honestly so fucking retarded it's annoying
"Please use an appropriate signature; thanks! www.arenajunkies.com/forum-9/announcement-3-forum-rules-2272014

#95 Jayru

Jayru
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Bloodfeather
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3396
  • Talents: Survival

Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:27 AM

View PostSlashgiggle, on 15 December 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

There's gun shows in Arizona where you can literally just hand somebody money and MAYBE sign a piece of paper and walk away from the booth with a semi-automatic weapon

Because it's a private sale.  Only FFL holders (federal firearm license) are required to do background checks, file a 4473 (creates record of sale for serial number).

#96 Rod

Rod
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Lightbringer
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 304
  • Talents: Combat
  • LocationPortugal

Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:42 AM

well, while it is sad its not really surprising i mean most of you already realise the pile of shit world you live in swarmed by oppressed people, cant imagine how rough it must be for there parents :/

#97 stcolbert

stcolbert
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 5705
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:27 AM

That's ridiculous.

I really don't get the train of thought that just because criminals are able to obtain some sort of contraband that we shouldn't regulate or set up checks and procedures to screen for such.  It baffles me how some people think this is a legitimate argument.
Regulating gun laws does not mean banning guns it means regulating them, and they should be.

The ability to sell guns privately sounds like pure fucking disaster.
I'm always right.
Posted Image

#98 Breadstic

Breadstic
  • Meebz
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Malfurion
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 2305
  • Talents: Beast Mastery 2/0/1/1/0/0
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:34 AM

Doesn't sound like disaster, it is a fucking disaster.

#99 Buglamp

Buglamp
  • Members
  • Posts: 7068

Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

View Poststcolbert, on 15 December 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

That's ridiculous.

I really don't get the train of thought that just because criminals are able to obtain some sort of contraband that we shouldn't regulate or set up checks and procedures to screen for such.  It baffles me how some people think this is a legitimate argument.
Regulating gun laws does not mean banning guns it means regulating them, and they should be.

The ability to sell guns privately sounds like pure fucking disaster.

I've worked in the sporting goods department of a store where I had to sell guns, and we had a few background checks result in arrests. Amusing that these idiots stood there waiting for a long(when they find out they have a history they drag it out so they can send police) background check when they know they've got a criminal history or even are currently wanted. One old guy they got for a murder he'd committed like 30 years back, was pretty weird.

Seems insane to me all it takes is for such people to know they can buy from a person privately rather than a store.

#100 Pawzz

Pawzz
  • Content Editors
  • Curse Premium
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 2464
  • Talents: Beast Mastery
  • LocationAustria

Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:17 AM

View PostThanatos, on 15 December 2012 - 12:56 AM, said:

Posted Image

Haha Mass Effect, the most brutal and deadly game in the universe. He probably also like Zynga Poker, my god we have to ban that game.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<