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perfect play bots discussion

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#61 djp771133

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:53 AM

View PostRailander, on 15 December 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

not really. assuming the computer running these calculations can do so in real time, it'd use probabilistic to pick commands so they would definitely be doing something and that something is always gonna be the best option possible given the circumstances, to the point that matches would be decided solely on comp vs comp.

yes, but I mean, like the interrupts and stuff would be stupid, really need a more defined answer of what the computers can and can't do

#62 Skizzlol

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM

RMP #1

clearly needs no explanation

Edited by Skizzlol, 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM.


#63 phishy

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:23 PM

double warrior rogue

played perfectly with group stealth + cd stacking, the game would instantly become a 3v2 right out of the opener

#64 Crankyboern

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:40 PM

99% sure it would be draws.

#65 Railander

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

View PostCrankyboern, on 15 December 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

99% sure it would be draws.
then there's a 99% chance you're wrong.

Edited by Railander, 15 December 2012 - 08:14 PM.

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#66 Bigmoran

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:12 PM

Shadow RMP

Could coordinate perfect opener / perfect CC chains

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#67 ROKMODE

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

If everything was perfect, no one would die
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#68 Danücsmlan

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:20 PM

Perfect played UHdk / Spriest / Rdruid !!!  would destroy everything.

#69 Synkz

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:24 PM

rsham/hpal/feral druid

using skullbash on CD to oom the healer and then kill them with bleeds while they are oom.

#70 Bloobungle

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

Having two DIFFERENT teams means that no matter what (orbitz gum!), one team will outperform the other. It's the nature of this game. We can strive for a perfect balance but, everyone knows that will never happen. If that were the case, we'd all be casting the exact same abilities.

In theory, I can come up with one team and find something that will beat it no matter what. Sadly, triple warrior could make some of the best teams out there look stupid. Or triple balance druid. Or triple feral druid.


Looking at it from another perspective completely changes my opinion though. Say the team with the best probability of winning against EVERYTHING faces a mirror. You'd expect 1 player from both teams to die simultaneously. Then the next. Then the third unless it is both healers. The only thing that stands in the way of this happening is the probability of critically striking and min/max damage. Whichever team that has luck on their side will win.

Edited by Bloobungle, 15 December 2012 - 10:28 PM.


#71 Synkz

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:35 PM

View PostBloobungle, on 15 December 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Having two DIFFERENT teams means that no matter what (orbitz gum!), one team will outperform the other. It's the nature of this game. We can strive for a perfect balance but, everyone knows that will never happen. If that were the case, we'd all be casting the exact same abilities.

In theory, I can come up with one team and find something that will beat it no matter what. Sadly, triple warrior could make some of the best teams out there look stupid. Or triple balance druid. Or triple feral druid.


Looking at it from another perspective completely changes my opinion though. Say the team with the best probability of winning against EVERYTHING faces a mirror. You'd expect 1 player from both teams to die simultaneously. Then the next. Then the third unless it is both healers. The only thing that stands in the way of this happening is the probability of critically striking and min/max damage. Whichever team that has luck on their side will win.

yeah i think that is a good point, RNG would play an even bigger part of the game if both teams were 100% perfect.  things like crits, fear pathing, and procs would have a big influence in this situation.

#72 Godx

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:27 PM

warrior/dk/restosham would win. melee bots instant kick. so if they go on a haeler, whoever is closest to the healer will insatnt kick any cast. and this could happen repeatedly. and the healer would eventually die if it has to cast, say a priest.
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#73 bIlliAn

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 05:17 AM

What you're asking is an impossibility, but interesting to contemplate. I've considered it myself on countless occasions. A perfectly coded arena team, the algorithms infinitely long, no errors made on either team. Even in a game like Starcraft 2, it would be difficult to code a 1v1 bot that platyed perfectly every single game, reading the game and reacting accordingly, no fights engaged unless the probability of winning was 100%.. Then to think about an arena setting where the variables are in the tens of hundreds every single second, I don't know if there's a super computer on the planet that could handle it. Either way, I've come to the conclusion that the perfect composition would be comprised of classes that are all capable of both healing and having different crowd controls on different diminishing returns, which most people attempt to stack currently. I'd put my money on Moonkin, Shadow Priest, Restoration Shaman.

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#74 djp771133

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:42 AM

the problem with thinking it would be a draw would be that not all the classes are 100% balanced.  Like certain classes if played perfectly do more damage/healing then others

#75 Iambored

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:46 AM

There are so many factors I just don't even know where to start with trying to answer this.

#76 Crankyboern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

View PostRailander, on 15 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

then there's a 99% chance you're wrong.

tell me more about your infinite knowlege... troll

fuck why did i feed him?


OT: I think its going to be draws, because no burst is ever going to be unprevented.

(Only between the "good" comps ofc. no triple rogue is going to draw a godcomp)

Edited by Crankyboern, 16 December 2012 - 11:56 AM.





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