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#81 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:48 PM

View PostDizp, on 13 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

If ferals are so op, how come you never face them? You might get a feral druid team ones every 50 game, while you face warrior and mages in 49/50.

"lol ure retarded, class representation has nothing to do with if its op or not!!!"

But it does, how many warrior did you see s11? How many warriors do you see now? How many warlocks and rogues did you see throughout catac? How many do you see now? How many resto shamans did you see in tbc and wotlk compared to cataclysm and mop? If a class is "op" it really does show off in arena representation.

Ferals were op in the start of s9, when bleeds alone killed you in a matter of secounds. That also showed off in representation, had a feral team every other arena match, but then as they got hotfixed and their bleeds was nerfed by 30% or something (cant remember) they suddenly started to fade. Just as warrior representation after reck/deadly calm stacking nerf faded. So saying class representation in arenas has nothing to do with weather or not a class is op, it so does, and has showed so during the years.

I don't think most of you understand the feral class. The damage really isnt that great. After the on use trinket nerf, you crit about 80k max on targets like mages and rogues, of course you can crit above 100k, but not on a player who's decently geared or goes for resilience rather than pvp-power. If ravage doenst crit, it does about 20-40k and thats with every single cooldown up. Damage outside of cooldowns are terribad, with few exceptions if you omen proccs combined with tiger's fury. Bleeds tick for 5-7k and shred does about 15-20k non crits (less on plate).

Clones, I agree, are dumb. But against resto shaman teams, or priests they are quite easily dispellable. Especially as a healer if you just keep some range. But I'm not gonna justify instant clones, cus they are indeed pretty dumb, especially from a holypala prespective. But then again, what would a feral druid be without its instant cc?

Also shapeshifting out of roots is kinda dumb, especially now when mages dont have coc nova anymore. I think the way it worked in cataclysm was good, with only stampeding roar and dash breaking novas.

Survivability now in mop as a feral druid is complete crap. I'd say remove symbiosis and make bearform at least worthy using. Not the way as it worked in catac perhaps, where you were immortal in bearform, but something gotta be done.

But yes, feral druids arent perfect. They need some tweaking. Without shapeshifting roots, and isntant cyclones. Feral druids will disapear completely from arenas.

Feral represenation is still really low in arenas, at least from personal experience. If they were as op as you make them sound, then I'm sure you would see just as many feral druids as you would see mages and warriors. Tell me one time where a class has been really op (s9 & s12 warriors, s12 prehotfix stampede for example) and where it hasnt showed in the ladders or arena representation. So how come no one rerolls fotm feral if its THIS OP? High skillcap? Not rly.

Don't understand the hate for this post. I disagree with your representation argument, but the rest are good points. I didn't play that many Ferals in S9, S11, nor S12, but in S9 they were definitely a strong class. I don't think too many top players invested into the Feral spec because of it's previous inconsistency in success. I agree the damage is really not that strong and that generally people don't truly understand where the damage is coming from, and why. Incarnation:KotJ + Berserk is a really strong combination for damage (just as the Boomkin Incarnation is strong), but is not any scarier than Avatar outside of the fact that it comes with so many instant clones (Berserk combo point generation) and is completely unpeelable by certain classes (Shamans, Mages, DKs). I think Predatory Swiftness should be undispellable, but the Cyclone portion of it should have a 30 second trackable internal cooldown. Dash+Stampeding Roar out of roots should be fine enough. Being immune to Polymorph effects is iconic for the class so definitely not up for allowing that to happen.

Side note:
Some abilities in the game are a wonder that you can dispel them in the first place. For instance, you can dispel Icy Veins, Power Infusion, and previously Avenging Wrath. You can't dispel Avatar, Incarnation, or Shadow Blades. I'm not entirely sure which way is better (current or just make all those undispellable), but I like how it is right now.

#82 Contrololol

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

View PostSkizzlol, on 13 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

instant cyclone needs 30 second cd, cant shift out of roots, and class is now balanced. Their dmg is high but its not even close to being as insane than what warriors and mages were doing all of mop so far.
Also when you zerker, you should still have positional requirement, or else make ambush have none cuz that is fucking bullshit that ferals get a 10x better version of Sdance and they aint even rogues. Just like the rest of feral abilities come to think of it...

Better stealth
Better step(dont have to talent for it)
Better vanish(1/4 of the c/d as well)
more dmg in burst
better defensive CDs/self heals.
better peels(clone bash root feral charge)

thats about it!

oh jk cant be rooted or sheeped. inb4 cloak, yeah it lasts 5 seconds, perma cc immune lasts all game...

You might have to revisit the feral talents :( , though I agree that damage is quite high especially when cooldown stacking, even with my crappy ass gear.. But then again, you have like 2 ferals on your whole battlegroup.. Can't be that bad, you normally end games in the opener anyway.

Edited by Contrololol, 13 December 2012 - 11:16 PM.


#83 djp771133

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

View PostTalbadar, on 13 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Side note:
Some abilities in the game are a wonder that you can dispel them in the first place. For instance, you can dispel Icy Veins, Power Infusion, and previously Avenging Wrath. You can't dispel Avatar, Incarnation, or Shadow Blades. I'm not entirely sure which way is better (current or just make all those undispellable), but I like how it is right now.

Maybe it's just magic-type abilities vs physical?  Not sure, but that would be my guess, who the fuck knows w/ blizzard lol

#84 Skizzlol

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:07 PM

View PostContrololol, on 13 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

You might have to revisit the feral talent :( , though I agree that damage is quite high especially when cooldown stacking, even with my crappy ass gear.. But then again, you have like 2 ferals on your whole battlegroup.. Can't be that bad, you normally end games in the opener anyway.

haha yeah my friend told me about the talent my b, theres some stuff i still dont know about mop because of how many new skills everyone but rogues got so yeah my b, but almost everything else is pretty accurate. And yeah my team is good but that doesnt give ferals the right to be immune mode.

#85 Ryseld

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

View Postzkype, on 13 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I dont even
what.



Why is symbiosis usable in arena?

Getting bubble, dispersion and iceblock is way too much, I would agree on them getting an extra taunt for pve or something but having to kill a restodruid TWICE and feraldruids tru cd's and then bubble is quite retarded.
Imho this is retarded
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#86 Necrolina

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:00 AM

View PostRyseld, on 13 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Imho this is retarded
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Spoiler

I don't mean to offend you, but if we judged ferals based on this clip nobody in their right mind would ask for nerfs. The fact that you somehow managed to loose against a KFC with the comp you are running is just baffling...

#87 Eelda

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

looooooool ferals op they need big nerf ROFL NERF

Edited by Eeldax, 14 December 2012 - 12:09 AM.


#88 Contrololol

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:07 AM

View PostNecrolina, on 14 December 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

I don't mean to offend you, but if we judged ferals based on this clip nobody in their right mind would ask for nerfs. The fact that you somehow managed to loose against a KFC with the comp you are running is just baffling...

Not that baffling, 3 stack TfB still hits hella hard, I literally have to keep my finger on hovering over my disperse when warrior CDs are still up. Granted, many blues.. but I doubt 2% more reduction when fully geared will do all that.

#89 Necrolina

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

View PostContrololol, on 14 December 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Not that baffling, 3 stack TfB still hits hella hard, I literally have to keep my finger on hovering over my disperse when warrior CDs are still up. Granted, many blues.. but I doubt 2% more reduction when fully geared will do all that.

It's not that warriors don't do a lot of damage, but that he is playing with the wrong talents and kites around pillars in caster form instead of taking a single trap. (and coincidentally during that 6 minute game at no point did we see the paladin not having his trinket available)

#90 Contrololol

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:15 AM

View PostNecrolina, on 14 December 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

It's not that warriors don't do a lot of damage, but that he is playing with the wrong talents and kites around pillars in caster form instead of taking a single trap. (and coincidentally during that 6 minute game at no point did we see the paladin not having his trinket available)

I didn't want to judge playstyle, but yeah, I saw 1 or 2 instants that whole clip; and about 7 seconds of un-cc'd Avatar.

All in all, I think you just played overly defensive, your offense is also good defense.

#91 Ryseld

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:16 AM

View PostNecrolina, on 14 December 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

I don't mean to offend you, but if we judged ferals based on this clip nobody in their right mind would ask for nerfs. The fact that you somehow managed to loose against a KFC with the comp you are running is just baffling...
The way to beat it is simple, stick on feral all game long all cleave above 2300 know

#92 Necrolina

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostRyseld, on 14 December 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

The way to beat it is simple, stick on feral all game long all cleave above 2300 know

That is clearly the reason why most feral teams shit all over KFCs and the likes. I'm not saying that tunneling a feral is particularly hard, but come on, if anything that clip proves how tunneling a feral is easy, not how you can get away from stuff and eventually pull off a win because of your great sustained damage and instant ccs :rolleyes:

#93 Contrololol

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:23 AM

View PostRyseld, on 14 December 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

The way to beat it is simple, stick on feral all game long all cleave above 2300 know

Definitely won't go anywhere if you don't CC the pally, about half the times in that clip where you were forced defensive was because of pally CC.

#94 Regent

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostContrololol, on 14 December 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Not that baffling, 3 stack TfB still hits hella hard, I literally have to keep my finger on hovering over my disperse when warrior CDs are still up. Granted, many blues.. but I doubt 2% more reduction when fully geared will do all that.

TfB got nerfed to 1 now, so its fine. Its funny though that the Hpally went oom from healing and the shaman did like 10 times as much healing.

#95 Necrolina

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:34 AM

View PostRegent, on 14 December 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

TfB got nerfed to 1 now, so its fine. Its funny though that the Hpally went oom from healing and the shaman did like 10 times as much healing.

The TfB / FB nerf has yet to be implemented in Europe so that could be one of the reasons why he had to play so defensive.

Edited by Necrolina, 14 December 2012 - 12:35 AM.


#96 bIlliAn

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:50 AM

Well, it's difficult to start throwing nerfs at a spec that's already underrepresented. We already know from the history of Blizzard that it'll take a few months packed with 100 meetings a day and endless beta testing for any changes to make it to our screens. Some of the crap Ferals have is ridiculous. How have they gone this long with the ability to break snares and roots while other melee physical classes are unhindered? The CC for every other melee class is also attached with a lengthy cooldown (Blind, Intimidating Shout (Nerfed recently)) while ferals can instantly recast their cyclones, it's just strange that nothing's been altered for them while every other class is getting pounded with nerfs, hopefully it's on the agenda over at blizzard HQ.

You better be damn sure there's going to be a lot more ferals in the coming weeks.

Edited by bIlliAn, 14 December 2012 - 12:56 AM.

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#97 Ryseld

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

View PostNecrolina, on 14 December 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

That is clearly the reason why most feral teams shit all over KFCs and the likes. I'm not saying that tunneling a feral is particularly hard, but come on, if anything that clip proves how tunneling a feral is easy, not how you can get away from stuff and eventually pull off a win because of your great sustained damage and instant ccs :rolleyes:
With this clip i want to show the huge amount of dmg done to a feral by kfc and other cleave in replay of "Why is symbiosis usable in arena?"
I'm not trying to make feral looks weak and i never said it, btw if you look up i posted another short video vs kfc. Imo pvp is broken and keep nerf one spec at time don't resolve the situation.

Edited by Ryseld, 14 December 2012 - 01:13 AM.


#98 Isumi

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:28 AM

View PostRegent, on 14 December 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

TfB got nerfed to 1 now, so its fine. Its funny though that the Hpally went oom from healing and the shaman did like 10 times as much healing.

i hope you don't want to say that shaman has better mana reg than holypala, if you want to say that you are the biggest faggot on earth

#99 IZYOUMADBRO

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:03 AM

ok feral/melee against any sham teams=win but other than that ferals are fine

#100 Armagedon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

Tiger's Fury + Savage Roar + Nature's Vigil is 3 different % modifiers, combine that with Incarnation, Berserk and on use trinket to create cooldown stacking that makes Warriors look bad.




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