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#1 Gankeyjake

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:11 AM

Offhand - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/85127

"The line it is drawn The curse it is cast
The slow one now Will later be fast
As the present now Will later be past
The order is Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'."

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#2 Kifasa

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

Haha... SpellPower is always welcome... ;)
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#3 xendrius

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:26 AM

View PostGankeyjake, on 12 December 2012 - 07:11 AM, said:




Double the pvp power, half the weapon damage and 500 agi loss. Did you gain any dps? I guess this can only be beneficial to assa.

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#4 AcerMVP

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

So back to using SP as assassination? Great! More Poison power!

#5 originn

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:38 AM

The amount of derpy in this thread is off the charts =/

#6 korzal

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:56 AM

would like to see some math on the dps loss/gains

i imagine burst would be higher due to bigger evisc/ambush numbers with the pvp power gain, but shadow blades would take a huge hit to dps


View Postxendrius, on 12 December 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

Double the pvp power, half the weapon damage and 500 agi loss. Did you gain any dps? I guess this can only be beneficial to assa.
mutilate would take a bit hit to dmg so no

#7 AcerMVP

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:07 PM

View Postoriginn, on 13 December 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

The amount of derpy in this thread is off the charts =/

Derpy or trolling?

#8 clusky

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

right on a stat comparison...

The caster dagger has 3094 more PvP power (11.67%) than the agi one.

Subtlety stat table
Agility 3.676
PvP Power: 3.092
Yellow Hit Rating 1.5306
Haste Rating   1.314
Expertise Rating 1.2664
Mastery Rating 1.1916
Crit Rating   1.1857

White Hit Rating   0.8136

using the stat weights for sub the agi dagger is a total value of 11542 AEP and the caster dagger is 19145.66 AEP.

This puts the caster dagger 7603.66 AEP infront of the agi one.

The caster dagger is also 1.6 opposed to 1.8 on the agi one.

however the caster dagger has half the dps and half the top end damage of the agi one.

So TLDR: equipping the caster dagger in the OH will give you 11.67% more pvp power, you will have a slight increase in poison procs due to it being 1.6 speed, Damage for hemo, backstab, rupture, evi and ambush will go up, you will see a decrease in white damage and shadow blades damage

Edited by clusky, 14 December 2012 - 10:14 PM.

Clustercluck said:

I'm sure your university doesn't appreciate you bloodlusting on their pianos

Kelarm said:

It's like trying to ride 3 horses with one ass.

#9 djp771133

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

View Postclusky, on 14 December 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

right on a stat comparison...

The caster dagger has 3094 more PvP power (11.67%) than the agi one.

Subtlety stat table
Agility 3.676
PvP Power: 3.092
Yellow Hit Rating 1.5306
Haste Rating   1.314
Expertise Rating 1.2664
Mastery Rating 1.1916
Crit Rating   1.1857

White Hit Rating   0.8136

using the stat weights for sub the agi dagger is a total value of 11542 AEP and the caster dagger is 19145.66 AEP.

This puts the caster dagger 7603.66 AEP infront of the agi one.

The caster dagger is also 1.6 opposed to 1.8 on the agi one.

however the caster dagger has half the dps and half the top end damage of the agi one.

So TLDR: equipping the caster dagger in the OH will give you 11.67% more pvp power, you will have a slight increase in poison procs due to it being 1.6 speed, Damage for hemo, backstab, rupture, evi and ambush will go up, you will see a decrease in white damage and shadow blades damage

What does it look like for muti?  Also do poisons take into consideration spell power?

#10 Speedymart

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:04 PM

View Postdjp771133, on 14 December 2012 - 03:55 PM, said:

What does it look like for muti?  Also do poisons take into consideration spell power?

1 point  : (AP * 0.112 + (400 * 1)) damage
(1.20 * (231 + 0.04 * AP)) * (21.4) (wound poison)

It doesn't affect enevenom or wound, can't find anything for deadly.

Even if it did scale off spell power, the ratio would have to be substantial to be worth the mute damage loss.


So far, I'm going to be picking the spellblade OH when I gear my rogue. White damage is so-so anyway.

Gonna gem full resil, and roll with that extra 11.6% pvp power. If all goes well, I'll have 65%~ish while being somewhat tanky, even for a rogue.

That's if I can finish gearing before the season ends rofl

Edited by Speedymart, 14 December 2012 - 04:08 PM.

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#11 Regent

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

View Postclusky, on 14 December 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

So TLDR: equipping the caster dagger in the OH will give you 11.67% more pvp power, you will have a slight increase in poison procs due to it being 1.6 speed, Damage for hemo, backstab, rupture, evi and ambush will go up, you will see a decrease in white damage and shadow blades damage

Doesn't poison work on the new Proc per minute thing instead of weapon speed now?

#12 Kifasa

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

View PostSpeedymart, on 14 December 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

1 point  : (AP * 0.112 + (400 * 1)) damage
(1.20 * (231 + 0.04 * AP)) * (21.4) (wound poison)

It doesn't affect enevenom or wound, can't find anything for deadly.

Even if it did scale off spell power, the ratio would have to be substantial to be worth the mute damage loss.


So far, I'm going to be picking the spellblade OH when I gear my rogue. White damage is so-so anyway.

Gonna gem full resil, and roll with that extra 11.6% pvp power. If all goes well, I'll have 65%~ish while being somewhat tanky, even for a rogue.

That's if I can finish gearing before the season ends rofl
1. After playing 30+ arenas last night, white dmg (melee) was overall my top1 dmg, so it is very important (with slice and dice 100% uptime).
2. Going full resi is barely noticeable... Rogue's survivability is so bad, that You will never experience staying alive in a situatuion You would normally die, just because You stacked resi.
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#13 Cyanne

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:55 PM

View PostKifasa, on 14 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

1. After playing 30+ arenas last night, white dmg (melee) was overall my top1 dmg, so it is very important (with slice and dice 100% uptime).
2. Going full resi is barely noticeable... Rogue's survivability is so bad, that You will never experience staying alive in a situatuion You would normally die, just because You stacked resi.

Imo goin full resi is very noticeable. As a healer in a rogue team when my rogue went full resi (and i mean FULL 320 resi gems) it went from "omg they are goin on you i'm popping cds" to healing an almost "normal" class. He still randomly dies in stuns when feint fades but ehh i wouldn't expect anything else from a rogue.

#14 Kifasa

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:19 PM

View PostCyanne, on 14 December 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Imo goin full resi is very noticeable. As a healer in a rogue team when my rogue went full resi (and i mean FULL 320 resi gems) it went from "omg they are goin on you i'm popping cds" to healing an almost "normal" class. He still randomly dies in stuns when feint fades but ehh i wouldn't expect anything else from a rogue.
The difference as far as I know is about 6%-7% resi... Without feint up Rogues get smashed by most of classes in 1 stun and somehow I can't see this few % dmg reduction more being game changing, but maybe I am wrong.
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#15 Cyanne

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:47 PM

View PostKifasa, on 14 December 2012 - 08:19 PM, said:

The difference as far as I know is about 6%-7% resi... Without feint up Rogues get smashed by most of classes in 1 stun and somehow I can't see this few % dmg reduction more being game changing, but maybe I am wrong.

It's actually not just "a few %". It's like a 15-20% dmg reduction difference.

#16 Kifasa

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:17 PM

View PostCyanne, on 14 December 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

It's actually not just "a few %". It's like a 15-20% dmg reduction difference.
Looks like I had wrong calculations. Can You give us a link to any full resi Rogue?
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.

#17 clusky

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:18 PM

View PostRegent, on 14 December 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Doesn't poison work on the new Proc per minute thing instead of weapon speed now?

yep sorry my bad,

Factoring in the agi loss by equipping the caster dagger in the OH will net you around 10% more damage on specials such as backstab, ambush and evi, basically its a 10% damage boost to your burst damage.

White damage will most likely decrease, I'm not sure how much the 10% pvp power gain will offset the loss but at half dps and wep damage I would imagine it would still be a loss.

so yeah 10% more damage on specials and burst with a loss on sustained white damage.

tbh though blizz never intended for rogues to OH a caster dagger, I wouldn't be suprised to see them changed to MH only shortly in the future

Clustercluck said:

I'm sure your university doesn't appreciate you bloodlusting on their pianos

Kelarm said:

It's like trying to ride 3 horses with one ass.

#18 clusky

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostKifasa, on 14 December 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Looks like I had wrong calculations. Can You give us a link to any full resi Rogue?

Its not a strict % damage reduction, by increasing your resil you are also increasing your effective health.
for example, you have 60.3% resil your effective health is 251.9%, by increasing your resil to 62.8% (2.5%) your effective health shoots up to 269.1%, a gain of 17.2%.

How resil interacts with effective health and pvp power is all explained in Eldacars guide here

http://www.arenajunk...silience-guide/

Clustercluck said:

I'm sure your university doesn't appreciate you bloodlusting on their pianos

Kelarm said:

It's like trying to ride 3 horses with one ass.

#19 AcerMVP

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:01 PM

View Postclusky, on 14 December 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

yep sorry my bad,

Factoring in the agi loss by equipping the caster dagger in the OH will net you around 10% more damage on specials such as backstab, ambush and evi, basically its a 10% damage boost to your burst damage.

White damage will most likely decrease, I'm not sure how much the 10% pvp power gain will offset the loss but at half dps and wep damage I would imagine it would still be a loss.

so yeah 10% more damage on specials and burst with a loss on sustained white damage.

tbh though blizz never intended for rogues to OH a caster dagger, I wouldn't be suprised to see them changed to MH only shortly in the future

So going sub and blowing something up in a CS > SHD will do us good if we use a Caster dagger, lol... I need to try this for the hell of it.

#20 Kifasa

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:00 AM

View Postclusky, on 14 December 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Its not a strict % damage reduction, by increasing your resil you are also increasing your effective health.
for example, you have 60.3% resil your effective health is 251.9%, by increasing your resil to 62.8% (2.5%) your effective health shoots up to 269.1%, a gain of 17.2%.

How resil interacts with effective health and pvp power is all explained in Eldacars guide here

http://www.arenajunk...silience-guide/
Thanks a lot.
Dear Blizzard,
Please nerf Rock. Paper is ok.

-Scissors.




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