214 replies to this topic

[djp771133]

drakuru, on 11 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

Shadow doesn't feel stronger/ weaker than last season.
Blizzard only changed other classes around Shadow, so suddenly support is needed.
Same goes for mages, which support harder than shadows but have higher burst.

Agree, considering the burst in this game, having offheals, and extra help with cc on your healer is a lot more useful than in the past.

[Domesauce]

I'm actually amazed there is this much defense of shadow priests. Yea, their damage is in a really good spot. But trying to kill a shadow priest team compared to killing anything else? Even if you play a shadow priest, you have to see the difference. It takes sooo much longer.

Now they don't have to totally destroy their ability to help their team or anything, they just need to look at how some defensives work as shadow. Lifegrip and Lifeswap are healer level lifesaving full-reset cooldowns, when you get to have them as a DPS in addition to all your healers cooldowns, it just becomes too much. I hate having abilities flat removed, but they at least need to be less effective as shadow. MD cooldown increase would be a pretty easy and incremental change.

[Structural]

maybe you should dump your diaper mode fotm comp since its not working anymore for DOUBLE HEALER MAGE or something

[djp771133]

Domesauce, on 11 December 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

I'm actually amazed there is this much defense of shadow priests. Yea, their damage is in a really good spot. But trying to kill a shadow priest team compared to killing anything else? Even if you play a shadow priest, you have to see the difference. It takes sooo much longer.

Now they don't have to totally destroy their ability to help their team or anything, they just need to look at how some defensives work as shadow. Lifegrip and Lifeswap are healer level lifesaving full-reset cooldowns, when you get to have them as a DPS in addition to all your healers cooldowns, it just becomes too much. I hate having abilities flat removed, but they at least need to be less effective as shadow. MD cooldown increase would be a pretty easy and incremental change.

Indeed, disperse being such a low cd, in addition to life swap and their heals/other utility.  Beatable, but it seems that games last a lot longer and kills are much harder to get with a spriest on the team.

inb4 some butthurt kids are going to flame you for playing warlock

[saffie]

djp771133, on 11 December 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

Indeed, disperse being such a low cd, in addition to life swap and their heals/other utility.  Beatable, but it seems that games last a lot longer and kills are much harder to get with a spriest on the team.

inb4 some butthurt kids are going to flame you for playing warlock

Ye I got the same outcome from stating the fact that shadow priests have way too many support and the games usually last significantly longer with a SP in them.

Then people made it about how "moonkin" and "ele" are not viable specs anyway (no idea how they are different than SP's) and that warlocks were op all this time so we should just shut up and be content with how unbalanced the game is now.

[phishy]

djp771133, on 11 December 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

well man, me and djanqt were having a decent discussion, and then you (and others, not to single you out) just start flaming regent, his comp/class just anything really for no real reason.  And I believe in the post I put above I outlined a decent amount of reasonable changes for many classes.  Just saying, I have been mostly talking with others about imho reasonable changes, and then half of the thread is flamers who only comment about the class someone plays etc, if people are going to do that, pm someone don't flame a thread at others' expense.

honestly, if this is a spriest-only discussion it should go to the priest forums.

hey i might as well make a disc thread too or just any spec that sucks right now in the general forums because that is an issue as well. doing that would just be too much tho, which is why we have class forums. or maybe i'm wrong...

Edited by phishy, 11 December 2012 - 08:37 PM.

[djp771133]

phishy, on 11 December 2012 - 08:36 PM, said:

honestly, if this is a spriest-only discussion it should go to the priest forums.

hey i might as well make a disc thread too or just any spec that sucks right now in the general forums because that is an issue as well

sorry bro I didn't make the thread ;p

[Mattadoro]

have void and disperse share cd's

problem solved lol

[inkorperated]

Mattadoro, on 11 December 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

have void and disperse share cd's

problem solved lol

Or put them as two of the 90 talents. I don't really care which of the current is left because they all suck.

[phishy]

djp771133, on 11 December 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

sorry bro I didn't make the thread ;p

i know you didn't

the thread was doomed from the beginning with who posted it. just saying don't expect a good, uninterrupted discussion about spirests in the gen forums

[inhume]

To go from 20-30% to 100% in a single gcd as a healer from one of your dpsers is way too strong for arena/rated bgs. The easiest solution would be to increase the cooldown and make it unusable in arena, because it's too much like LOH. a harder solution would be to nerf the ratio of which health is swapped from 1 to 1 to .5 to 1.

[Djandawg]

djp771133, on 11 December 2012 - 08:25 PM, said:

Indeed, disperse being such a low cd, in addition to life swap and their heals/other utility.  Beatable, but it seems that games last a lot longer and kills are much harder to get with a spriest on the team.

inb4 some butthurt kids are going to flame you for playing warlock

Disperse is not a low cd, it's 2 minutes, it's in line with similar abilities from other classes, not that some have also have cooldown resetters.

I did not make any comments about classes people play.
but
when someone says stuff around the lines: "lol shadow priests are so biased, defending something so overpowered, sps are better than all casters except mage, there isn't a comp that you can't replace a lock with a sp" etc:
it requires a response when they did not post anything about imbalance of casters during 11 seasons of warlock supremacy, they did not feel the need to mention how outrageously bad eles/moonkins/sps were comparing to locks and how broken lock comps were, wld, mls, rls, lsd, lsd2 etc, how last expansion 8 out of 10 teams had a lock in their team on top tiers and so on.
All of a sudden patch 5.1 and some hotfixes hit, locks are not the best as they pick this time to talk about other casters for the first time and start calling people biased etc.
This is called hypocrisy and I pointed it out. People with self respect would not go to the forums and qq when they have such class/comp history.
That said, as I mentioned before, this game is in a state where spamming unhealable damage or popping cooldowns and killing something before healers can react is a valid strategy. The shadowpriests prevent this and they are currently absolutely necessary.
Once majorly broken things get fixed, life swap can be safely moved to the discipline tree.

[Regent]

Bootzx, on 11 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

There is not a discussion its you and him who want changes to a class with only one viable spec left  it was called that there would be a post from regent on AJ as soon as the match ended. Secondly, like you actually give a fuck about a balanced game you want changes to a class before they finally fix the real issues with warriors or mages, get serious lol...

The first non-spriest team after tanking 300 mmr. (actually the third, hunter got globabled by both a tsg and kitty)
This is the perfect example of how long a match should last. There was no one shotting, both teams fought over cooldowns until we lined up los and cc to win it. Games shouldn't last 45 seconds, games shouldn't last 20 minutes.

Back ontopic:

Maybe the problem could be solved by nerfing guise instead? The combinition of guise and mass dispel is probably the biggest culprit. We all know you can CC them to stop the massdispel, but when they can just guise to avoid all cc and then mass dispel their healer out ever 30 seconds...

Djandawg, on 11 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

That said, as I mentioned before, this game is in a state where spamming unhealable damage or popping cooldowns and killing something before healers can react is a valid strategy. The shadowpriests prevent this and they are currently absolutely necessary.
Once majorly broken things get fixed, life swap can be safely moved to the discipline tree.

You make a very good point. I think in an ideal world, the game would be balanced around both dps races, and timing cc chaining properly. TSG could be viable, KFC could be viable, Draincleave could be viable, Triple healer could be via-nope jk, RMP could be viable. Making the game only have one viable strategy gets extremely boring fast. s11 would have been terribly boring without triple dps to spice things up. If there was no triple dps, then all the game would be is RLS. If there was no RLS then there would be no triple dps and vangs/ other comps would have dominated.

Nowhere am I saying that I want spriests to be terrible, I actually played spriest before swapping to paladin. I just think that for the way the game is currently, something needs to go. Blizzard tries to balance healers around 3s, thats what they have said in the past, but they dont take into account things like shadowpriests when doing that. A shaman becomes insanely strong when coupled with a shadowpriest, because all the usual ways to beat them become much, much harder. We all know that Blizzard is going to rush the next expac out asap since MoP isn't doing as well as they thought, so there are likely a lot of changes in the next expac.

At this point, its just putting bandages on things that are broken to try to keep everyone as happy as they can hope.

Edited by Regent, 11 December 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[saffie]

Last season when/if people said anything about warlocks being too good, I don't remember any warlock going out there and saying they aren't, and they shouldn't get nerfed or other classes shouldn't get buffed.

Plus you have to look at right now, the game should be balanced, its not about letting the bad classes from earlier seasons to shine so people who play them can have fun too, whats important is to have a good and balanced game that everyone can enjoy.

Edited by saffie, 11 December 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[Deeklol]

Hey retard i bet you guys trained that poor mage for 4 minute straight and never untargeted him. Swifty 1 shot macro wins again and lmao posting that ss here thinking ur good lol lifetime duelists


+rep if agreed

[Bootzx]

Love the time stamp on that SS, PS cause I know its challenging to know things about other classes for you, guise was nerfed in the last patch, but in return they got new art for the ability..fair trade.

[Draakex]

Most of the people that want shadow to be nerfed forget, that it's the only real viable spec available to us. If you take even more utility (than already taken) from us you make us no good choice for any comp. Right now the defensive utilities are the things that are needed from us. We don't have the best cc, not the best (burst-) damage and our offhealing already got nerfed... don't understand all the hate.

[Regent]

Deeklol, on 11 December 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Hey retard i bet you guys trained that poor mage for 4 minute straight and never untargeted him. Swifty 1 shot macro wins again and lmao posting that ss here thinking ur good lol lifetime duelists


+rep if agreed

Bad attempt at trolling. We actually got a cc chain off on the pally, forced his cds, all of the mages cds and then killed the pally.

Draakex, on 11 December 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Most of the people that want shadow to be nerfed forget, that it's the only real viable spec available to us. If you take even more utility (than already taken) from us you make us no good choice for any comp. Right now the defensive utilities are the things that are needed from us. We don't have the best cc, not the best (burst-) damage and our offhealing already got nerfed... don't understand all the hate.

Disc should be buffed at the same time. Its easy, buff sustained damage, get rid of either guise, md, or lifeswap (or share cds or something)

Edited by Regent, 11 December 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[mnny]

calm down qqlord

[Stolsben]

Regent, on 11 December 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

Just played 18 games of 3s starting at 2350 mmr, 15 games had spriests, 13 had rshamans.

Spriests new fotm?

Lifeswap, Defensive dispel, offensive dispel, some of the best CCs, easily avoid ranged cc, insane burst, decent offheals

Far too much to have on a single class. They were fine before, but with nerfs to all the other classes they are dominating.

Mass dispel should be taken away, definitely.

Shadow priests are maybe a little over the top (playing spriest/shaman/warr, and we just have a few too many tools to survive). But saying that shadow priests have "insane burst" is ridiculous. Plus I really can't take any of your shit seriously anymore seeing as you tried to camp pre-stampede nerf KFC and then went mad when they reset ladders. Get out of here please, you're just making yourself look even more stupid than you are.