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Avatar vs. Bloodbath vs. Stormbolt 5.1 edition


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#1 Spindarella

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:47 PM

Seems like this topic is ripe for discussion again with patch 5.1 hitting.

Avatar is less obviously dominant with freedom and rage generation nerfs.
Stormbolt is more attractive with Gag Order gone.

Here are my unscientific unhelmeted thoughts (from the perspective of an Orc playing a lot of Turbo Cleave):

Avatar is reduced to basically a stackable on-use trinket.

Is the benefit of Blood Fury + On-use + Reck + Banner + Avatar that much greater than Blood Fury + On-use + Reck + Banner + Bloodbath?

Bloodbath with its 1min CD might be more useful in getting defensives and trinkets out before setting up the big burst w/ Reck, especially if used in conjunction w/ dancing steel and/or synapse springs.

Its going to be even more critical that you've got a full rage bar before bursting.  Does the loss of the rage bonus (and availability of another glyph slot) make Glyph of Unending Rage compelling?

Does incremental burst strength even matter compared to the needs of shutting down wizards (or healers) at range?  Stormbolt looks attractive, but DRing is my biggest concern here (IMO it'd be a more attractive talent if it was just a ranged silence).  This line of thinking drags in arguments for Disrupting shout as well.

I'm really on the fence and suspect I'll need to try out all 3.

Wondering what others are thinking.

#2 Slyth

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 07:08 PM

Kittycleave for life.

Double root break with feral symbiosis
Trinket
Double freedom
Safeguard

Then you´re running Bloodbath spec with upgraded t2 weapon.

The rage issue, indeed less heroic strike spam when bursting. So save up some rage instead.


Go!

#3 Shells

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:37 PM

Im trying bloodbath and its not to bad so far, i like the 1minute cd thats nice.

#4 sikemu

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

I think stormbolt is a good choice depending on playstyle and if your comp only has 1 more controlled stun DR, overall though bloodbath seems to be the way to go now

#5 Artunias

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:33 AM

Just do whatever veev ends up doing. Easier that way. =P

#6 Gabbit

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:06 AM

Pretty sure avatar still will be the way to go, havn't even tried stormbolt yet tho :duckers:
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#7 Ansi

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:24 AM

I like Bloodbath for the slow, and I like how it double dips with Recklessness.

It doesn't give nearly as good pressure as I can get with Avatar though.

But Avatar just screams CC me.

Nobody cares about Bloodbath.

#8 Superkåre

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:54 AM

View PostAnsi, on 13 December 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I like Bloodbath for the slow, and I like how it double dips with Recklessness.

It doesn't give nearly as good pressure as I can get with Avatar though.

But Avatar just screams CC me.

Nobody cares about Bloodbath.

Bloodbath also double dips in resilience making its damage twice as shit

#9 Covlol

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:12 AM

Stormbolt 100x better than bloodbath
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#10 Blackrat5521

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:51 AM

bloodbath is that thing you shouldn't ever rely on

#11 Pinka

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:13 AM

Using bb since 5.1 it makes great use in rbgs where you aoe like a boss and slow everything you touch. You just need to pool rage before using it to build up a strong dot. Also makes a great killer to those who survive the bust an still end up dieing cause of the dot. Or they remain slowed wile your in cc. Fun for bgs or as a fc. is also the "stun lord spec." Warbringer, shockwave, stormbolt for fcked up stun chains. No matter if they dr. Your target is usually dead if you chain them up anyhow.

Edited by Pinka, 13 December 2012 - 09:16 AM.

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#12 Ciarzx

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

To be honest, my answer is all 3. Since Avatar has been toned down and the TFB oneshot playstlye nerfed, I finally feel like you have (almost) 100% freedom to change stuff up depending on what comp you are meeting, as the system originally intended to make possible. Each talent on our bottom tier has its uses, as do shouts and charges.

With that being said, I am enjoying bloodbath a lot at the moment, mostly just using it on cooldown with on use and colossus up and engi gloves in the downtime, the pressure is really insane and the short cd means reck and banner can still be lined up with it at almost any point in a match.
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#13 Cranky

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

Just curious... do you guys think that Bloodbath is better for warrior cleave teams like Kittycleave/KFC? Seems like Avatar just gets you those quick burst wins a lot of times. I keep wanting to try BB but I just don't trust it! Also, I have never seen it crit (even with Reck) and I'm not sure if it double dips with resil... anyone know for sure?

#14 Tuskx

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:18 PM

View PostCranky, on 17 December 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Just curious... do you guys think that Bloodbath is better for warrior cleave teams like Kittycleave/KFC? Seems like Avatar just gets you those quick burst wins a lot of times. I keep wanting to try BB but I just don't trust it! Also, I have never seen it crit (even with Reck) and I'm not sure if it double dips with resil... anyone know for sure?

It can't crit, and it certainly does double dip with resil.  I made the mistake of taking on heroic raiding as well this xpac, but I ran some tests recently as I finally have the time/possible partners to make pvp worthwhile for me again, and I noticed that fact almost instantaneously.  

My question about Stormbolt vs Bloodbath is, which scales better?  Bloodbath would seem to, as it does in PvE, but double dipping into resil makes me question that, especially when stormbolt is a flat % of weapon dmg.

#15 djp771133

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:25 PM

bloodbath double dips resil, gg

#16 Speedymart

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

you guys gotta remember a few things

1. blood bath is an 18 second ever increasing dot that slows
2. it's a bleed so it ignores armor

using blood bath + trinket + calm on even a pally causes insane pressure, and it's up 3x as often. With avatar you hit harder upfront, but less over the entire duration

personally i run bloodbath in everything except 5s where the wombo is king


just think of s9 feral bleeds, a dot ticking 5%-10% of your health every second. if bloodbath could crit it would make pre-nerf avatars damage look like a rogue


run stormbolt if you like being cute with the big plays

Edited by Speedymart, 18 December 2012 - 03:04 PM.

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#17 Infernion

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:26 PM

View PostKlyftigt, on 12 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

How does his dick taste?

Did you wintrade access another season? Or what's going on here? :-)

#18 djp771133

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostSpeedymart, on 18 December 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

you guys gotta remember a few things

1. blood bath is an 18 second ever increasing dot that slows
2. it's a bleed so it ignores armor

using blood bath + trinket + calm on even a pally causes insane pressure, and it's up 3x as often. With avatar you hit harder upfront, but less over the entire duration

personally i run bloodbath in everything except 5s where the wombo is king


just think of s9 feral bleeds, a dot ticking 5%-10% of your health every second. if bloodbath could crit it would make pre-nerf avatars damage look like a rogue


run stormbolt if you like being cute with the big plays

yeah... no.  Whenever I use it, bloodbath ticks for like 5k, and I'm almost full gear/upgraded t2

#19 Bamflol

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

View Postdjp771133, on 18 December 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

yeah... no.  Whenever I use it, bloodbath ticks for like 5k, and I'm almost full gear/upgraded t2
(with cds) i've got it ticking for 21k on my war in t1/full honor gear.
Pressure from it is ok i guess, although i like to just fuck around on my war and reckstorm shit w/bloodbath/onuse.

#20 djp771133

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

View PostBamflol, on 18 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

(with cds) i've got it ticking for 21k on my war in t1/full honor gear.
Pressure from it is ok i guess, although i like to just fuck around on my war and reckstorm shit w/bloodbath/onuse.

I only get like 23k ticks with every cd, pve fury. There is no way you are getting 21k ticks in honor gear on a pvp target, not to mention that is during execute phase.  (this is with on use, full raid buffs, 473 pve gear, reck, skull banner, orc racial)

Edited by djp771133, 18 December 2012 - 04:14 PM.





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